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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: NOrrTH]
#770006
08/10/10 09:00 PM
08/10/10 09:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
Alikazam
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
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Quote:
Again, thanks for all the excellent advice and comments. Some people say that the numbers are about where there should be given the limited info I have and that gives me the comfort I was looking for.
Soooo.... it turns out I had a dead plug. Wouldn't that of shown up on the dyno's computer? Not sure how much a difference that would've made, but ya, there's some lost hp 
To answer some of the questions:
The dyno numbers are uncorrected
83 deg F
33% humidity
elevation 103 ft
max hp at 4500 rpm
max torque 3750
No the dyno guy didn't tune it, just fluids
Air fuel line is almost flat after 3k rpm at 13.5
My cousin said "throw on some 906 heads, put 3.91's in it and that will wake that 440 up."
The car goes pretty good, I'm not complaining but..another 75 or so hp would be nice 
I would definitely "re-dyno" after fixing the dead plug. There is no guarantee the operator would catch a choppy idle with a miss, it could be chalked up to a radical sounding cam and as you went higher in the revs, yo might notice a miss, but usually on a chassis dyno it gets pretty loud so it could have been missed. That being said, I am a fan of both Chassis Dyno results and 1/4 mile results. Mine tend to agree, but I have been to a chassis dyno where the operators were new at it and had their setup "way off" but swore up and down that my engine was making 40 less rwhp from the week before after only swapping out spark plugs... when later it was found out that they had the dyno in AWD mode not 2wd mode... *shrug* Take it all with a grain of salt I say but I would drag race it (and MPH is the best indicator given a "decent" launch) and dyno it and just enjoy the hobby! The last dyno operator was very impressed with my very street friendly 340 rwhp/349 rwtq 360. He said a lot of big block cars in his shop make less than that, haha. Course, then I added the Nitrous.... *grin* Anyway, have fun, that's what its all about!  You can always add a little squeeze to the fo-fo-ty if you need more out of it from time to time!
Last edited by Alikazam; 08/10/10 09:16 PM.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: NOrrTH]
#770007
08/10/10 10:27 PM
08/10/10 10:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Again, thanks for all the excellent advice and comments. Some people say that the numbers are about where there should be given the limited info I have and that gives me the comfort I was looking for.
Soooo.... it turns out I had a dead plug. Wouldn't that of shown up on the dyno's computer? Not sure how much a difference that would've made, but ya, there's some lost hp
To answer some of the questions:
The dyno numbers are uncorrected
83 deg F
33% humidity
elevation 103 ft
max hp at 4500 rpm
max torque 3750
No the dyno guy didn't tune it, just fluids
Air fuel line is almost flat after 3k rpm at 13.5
My cousin said "throw on some 906 heads, put 3.91's in it and that will wake that 440 up."
The car goes pretty good, I'm not complaining but..another 75 or so hp would be nice
one candle out will hurt a ton. I think I ran a 12.58 on a usual 12.teen when I burned a plug wire. 906's are ok but it depends on the port work. fix the bad cylinder and roll. 3.91's are great for a b-body auto.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: NOrrTH]
#770008
08/10/10 10:50 PM
08/10/10 10:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,320
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,320
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
If you can take that car to a track ( find out what it weights) get the mph. And you can get a pretty good idea of the power.
Quote:
And E/T is not what tells the story on horsepower, MPH is.
As important as this is, many don't understand this.
279 uncorrected hp with a dead or half dead cylinder - that is not bad. Tune it, get it to the track and have some fun, and then tune some more. If you want to get serious about tuning based on mph, get a weather station.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: BSB67]
#770009
08/10/10 11:49 PM
08/10/10 11:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
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You can buy a package that is known to make such and such amount. My choice was a Stage one HugesEngines Stage 1 440 Block, Heads, Cam, ported intake. The level 1, made the flywheel numbers in the range that I was going to drive. A package system be it Edelbrock Performwer /RPM/ Torquer II, or Holley systemax, and Mopar performance crate engines. The intake should be 40-60 % greater runner /plenum volume than the heads. The performer edelbrock or Wieand 8009 would work well with the stock ported heads. The runner volumes would match and package up. My daily driver was a wild card build, had a 323" w/ 318LA 1.88"/1.60 valve heads shaved to 8.5:1 compression. A 340 hp cam .430/.444" lift , single plane streetmaster 318 intake kept port size continuity, Holley 600 topped it off, Summit headers, and a 4 speed 833 with 3.23 gears. Made 237 RWhp and ran the quarter mile with a 4.10 gear centersection in 14.80's. Type 3800lb race wt 4 door valiant.  The hughes Feels like it makes what the chart tells. 
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: feets]
#770010
08/11/10 12:09 AM
08/11/10 12:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,234
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,234
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:
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imho...
Dyno numbers are BS. 1/4 mile times are the true judge...
I agree. Take it and get some timeslips, then start looking for more power.
You guys are full of crap.
What should a 3800 lb car with 459 rwhp and 490 rwtq run? That puts it close to 600 hp at the crank.
How about a 12.49?
Add a converter and it'd be a solid 11 car. The dyno won't see the converter.
We recently had a dyno day with our club. A couple mild 440s made similar power to the original post. In fact, a couple small blocks were in the same park with power but were lacking the torque.
The dyno can tell you a lot about your engine. In fact, Stumpy found that he needed to try a different shift point with his truck.
A dyno is a tool. It is not a competition. When used properly, it will help improve your drag strip experience.
When there is no drag strip close or if you're not a drag racer, dynos can come in handy for tuning your car.
ET isn't what to look for. MPH tells you what it is making. Using the weight of the car and that MPH number will give you a decent "chassis dyno" number right there.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: NOrrTH]
#770011
08/11/10 09:42 AM
08/11/10 09:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 37
MI
Jerseyboy
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 37
MI
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Quote:
Again, thanks for all the excellent advice and comments. Some people say that the numbers are about where there should be given the limited info I have and that gives me the comfort I was looking for.
Soooo.... it turns out I had a dead plug. Wouldn't that of shown up on the dyno's computer? Not sure how much a difference that would've made, but ya, there's some lost hp
To answer some of the questions:
The dyno numbers are uncorrected
83 deg F
33% humidity
elevation 103 ft
max hp at 4500 rpm
max torque 3750
No the dyno guy didn't tune it, just fluids
Air fuel line is almost flat after 3k rpm at 13.5
My cousin said "throw on some 906 heads, put 3.91's in it and that will wake that 440 up."
The car goes pretty good, I'm not complaining but..another 75 or so hp would be nice
13.5 is a little leaner then I like to see. I"d consider fattening it up a little and see if she likes it. You might pick up a little hp with a richer AFR. All depends on what your combo wants though..
J
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: NOrrTH]
#770013
08/11/10 02:41 PM
08/11/10 02:41 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Quote:
To answer some of the questions:
The dyno numbers are uncorrected
83 deg F
33% humidity
elevation 103 ft
max hp at 4500 rpm
max torque 3750
No the dyno guy didn't tune it, just fluids
Air fuel line is almost flat after 3k rpm at 13.5
From the power peak RPMs, it looks like the cam is fairly small, or may even be a stock cam?
A larger cam should help reduce the fuel octane requirement and add some power. With aftermarket Aluminum heads and the larger cam (plus intake and carb), you can get that extra 75 hp pretty easely, and it will tolerate lower octane fuel.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: 451Mopar]
#770014
08/11/10 03:49 PM
08/11/10 03:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,185
Nanaimo, BC
NOrrTH
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,185
Nanaimo, BC
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Unfortunately, if I want to keep my air grabber, I'm stuck with the Edlebrock Performer 440. Its an inch higher at the back than stock and I had to put a thinner air filter on to get the air cleaner lid to clear the air grabber box.
From what I've read so far on this board, it would seem that these aluminum heads are the way to go. Is that something you can buy and bolt on without knowing what pistons/compression you have? Not that I would dream of doing the work myself but if I see a good deal, maybe I can jump on them. Or maybe my intake is "not much better than stock" then they wouldn't flow so there'd be no point.
'71 GTX N96 auto 3:55
'74 Challenger 440+6 4spd 4:10
'71 Duster 340 auto 4:10
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: NOrrTH]
#770015
08/11/10 05:34 PM
08/11/10 05:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Unfortunately, if I want to keep my air grabber, I'm stuck with the Edlebrock Performer 440. Its an inch higher at the back than stock and I had to put a thinner air filter on to get the air cleaner lid to clear the air grabber box.
From what I've read so far on this board, it would seem that these aluminum heads are the way to go. Is that something you can buy and bolt on without knowing what pistons/compression you have? Not that I would dream of doing the work myself but if I see a good deal, maybe I can jump on them. Or maybe my intake is "not much better than stock" then they wouldn't flow so there'd be no point.
no need for aluminum heads. and a CH4B is a better intake and it will fit under the air grabber. if your power stops at 4500, that's the problem. heads won't help. Many guys run 500hp+ on old iron heads. Either you have a timing/tuning issue or it's factory cam. Although a factory cam should not have a rough idle. You need to get some compression numbers 1st. Then have a knowledgable MOPAR guy help you tune it. Then decide on what parts you want to change out. A cam swap can do wonders. Also go drive it. nail it from a dead stomp and go thru the gears a few times. Even a stock 440 w/ 3.23 gears should boil the hides mid way thru 2nd.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: NOrrTH]
#770016
08/12/10 12:08 PM
08/12/10 12:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071
Irving, TX
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The Performer 440 is an aluminum copy of the factory intake. It's not considered an improvement. I ran one of those thihgs years ago.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#770018
08/13/10 03:57 AM
08/13/10 03:57 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Quote:
if your power stops at 4500, that's the problem. heads won't help. Many guys run 500hp+ on old iron heads.
I agree the cam is either fairly small, or way too advanced. Good heads will help, and old iron heads can make good HP, but not in stock form. I mentioned the aluminum heads because the Edelbrock Performer or 440 Stealth heads are an easy and affordable bolt on. Price out the cost of rebuilding stock iron heads with labor, the larger valves, hardened seats, new valve guides, and porting and you will have as much money invested in them as if you just bought the new heads, and the aluminum heads have closed chambers and are less prone to detonation.
If you consider a stock unported heads usually only flows about 235 cfm @ 0.500" lift, and on out of the box stealth head flows 270+ cfm, that extra 35 cfm can be worth 70+ HP as long as the rest of the intake/carb/cam/exhaust don't choke the engine.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#770023
08/13/10 10:50 PM
08/13/10 10:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
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Quote:
"The 440 performer is much better than a CH4"
no it's not. I think you are thinking of a Performer RPM, that is a totally different intake. CC or MM did an intake shoot out and the CH4B did very well even stacked against the new designed intakes.
Looking here at the picture side by side. You should be able to tell the performer 440 has more pad and plenum height. Once divided the Performers runners are longer, wider, taller, faster , stronger...
Timing, dead spark plug, and you ran it out on the dyno?
packages take out the guess work. Use them.
The CH4 intake is a great intake with a AVS carb, mild cam 440 2.76-3.23 gears.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: Crizila]
#770024
08/13/10 10:50 PM
08/13/10 10:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:
Quote:
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Obviously your numbers are down, so something is amiss somewhere with your combo. 
I'll bet it's the size of his fuel line...  
I was gonna say that, but thought I'd just wait for you to chime in. 
Good to see you still hanging around, John...
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