Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
#769966
08/09/10 09:02 PM
08/09/10 09:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,185 Nanaimo, BC
NOrrTH
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,185
Nanaimo, BC
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First off, I'm a dumb noob so be merciful.
I bought an Ebay car and the seller couldnt tell me anything about the motor other than it had a fresh rebuild.
What I do know about it is that its a 70 440 hp block, rough idle cam, 1 7/8 Hooker Comp, Eddy Performer 440, Eddy 750 Comp Series carb, is only happy running on 94 Octane, and no, it doesn't blow blue.
I had a reputable race guy put it on his chassis dyno and he said, "It makes good power. Who ever built it really new what they were doing. The air fuel is perfect." and hands me the sheet.
279 max hp 358 max torque
I said, "I was hoping for more." He said, "You dont really wanna be making much more than that cause stuff will start breaking, besides, thats about all these things make."
So I called my cousin who's been drag racing all his life and he says you lose about 100 hp through the drive train. If I want more I need new heads, most of the power is in head design.
I dont doubt what these guys are saying. I'm just scratching my head reading all the posts here where people are saying you can get 500hp out of a 440 by sneezing at it and I'm lucky if I'm making stock HP with better intake, headers and whats got to be a lumpier than stock cam.
If my compression was way low, wouldn't I be able to run lower octane gas? How bad can my heads be if thats the issue? Are people exaggerating their hp estimates here?
'71 GTX N96 auto 3:55
'74 Challenger 440+6 4spd 4:10
'71 Duster 340 auto 4:10
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: NOrrTH]
#769970
08/09/10 09:19 PM
08/09/10 09:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Do a compression test (& post what you get) and what heads are on it/vac at idle/timing/idle speed?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: NOrrTH]
#769971
08/09/10 09:21 PM
08/09/10 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
I said, "I was hoping for more." He said, "You dont really wanna be making much more than that cause stuff will start breaking, besides, thats about all these things make."
that is a ridiculous statement, for just about any engine, let alone a 440!
if you really want to know where you are, you should start with a compression and a leakdown test. then you have to determine what cam you have in there. if the A/F is good all the way through the range, then that isn't too suspect, but that also doesn't mean you aren't under/over carb'ed for you setup.
look at where your timing is. that's not worth 100hp, but it can make a big difference.
there are many theories out there, but most people somewhat agree that you lose about 15% through the powertrain for a manual, and about 20% for an auto. i've heard higher, and i've heard lower, those seem like middle of the road stats to me.
but yes, you do need to figure out the cam, the compression to whatever degree you can, what heads it is running, and take it from there.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: lokalik]
#769972
08/09/10 09:30 PM
08/09/10 09:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,445 N.Wilkesboro,NC
DusterKrazy
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,445
N.Wilkesboro,NC
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Quote:
on a chassis dyno my 383 made 325hp and 350tq. bored 30, almost zero deck, eddy performer rpm heads, 6pk, hughes 510 lift roller cam, tti's. i agree can't fix it until you know whats in it. you culd have parts that don't work well together.
325 horsepower at the wheels is awesome for a 383!!
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: DusterKrazy]
#769973
08/09/10 09:40 PM
08/09/10 09:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,185 Nanaimo, BC
NOrrTH
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,185
Nanaimo, BC
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Thanks guys, I'll get on it.
'71 GTX N96 auto 3:55
'74 Challenger 440+6 4spd 4:10
'71 Duster 340 auto 4:10
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: DusterKrazy]
#769974
08/09/10 09:40 PM
08/09/10 09:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,732 Watertown, WI
MikeyT
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,732
Watertown, WI
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What kind of dyno was it? I had mine dynoed on a mustang 1000 dyno and had similar build and I made 305 hp and 416 torque on the dyno, but changed up carb and timing quite a bit and it picked up an additional 20 hp. Their is still more in it. I just have to find time to play with it more! Here is some ideas. I use to run a 750 eddy carb, and it needed to be jetted up 2 sizes. I also found that my 440 was best after setting timing at 35 degrees at 3000 rpms. If it was me I would call Don Gould over at FBO and discuss with him your build and see if you can get more out of it. He does a lot with mopars and could give you some clues. He's currently building me a distributor for my set up and I think I'll get more out of it. Mike
1969 Dodge Dart Swinger
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: Crizila]
#769979
08/09/10 11:25 PM
08/09/10 11:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver
64Post
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master
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Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:
Obviously your numbers are down, so something is amiss somewhere with your combo.
I'll bet it's the size of his fuel line...
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: FuryBoy]
#769980
08/09/10 11:32 PM
08/09/10 11:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Puyallup, WA
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If he's giving you horsepower at the wheels, thats not a horrible number. Probobly represents around 365 - 375 crank horsepower. If its a low compression 440, with stock heads and a few bolt ons, I'd say thats a real world number.
Just because we say that its easy to get 500 hp out of a 440, doesn't mean that every one on the street is making that. Sounds to me like all this motor has on a bone stock 375-horse motor from 1970, is a little cam (that may not match up well with the intake and compression), and a good set of headers. If the last valve job was done by a yeah-hoo, and it was built, compression-wise, to live on 80's pump gas, then I think it all makes sense.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: 64Post]
#769981
08/10/10 01:11 AM
08/10/10 01:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
Quote:
Obviously your numbers are down, so something is amiss somewhere with your combo.
I'll bet it's the size of his fuel line...
no, his fuel line has to be the right size, cuz it's a 750 and not a 700. his windage tray could be off a bit, or the fan belt could be too tight. air filter is probably clogged, which is good for at least 75 hp. water in the battery could be low, or perhaps the windshield washer fluid. make sure the heater isn't turned on, robbing heat from the engine making it run too cool. roll the windows up for better ET times, and put stickier tires on the front. change the machperson struts, and totally disregard this post.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#769982
08/10/10 01:41 AM
08/10/10 01:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
If he's giving you horsepower at the wheels, thats not a horrible number. Probobly represents around 365 - 375 crank horsepower. If its a low compression 440, with stock heads and a few bolt ons, I'd say thats a real world number.
Assuming he gave you rear wheel hp figures, 280hp/358tq and a 20% loss through the drivetrain = about 350hp/450ft-lbs. And that would be NET hp/torq not the GROSS rating the 71 and earlier motors were rated as. Which is probably worth another 20% or so. For a 440 with unknown compression ratio(only real way to know is to pull a head and measure), unknown cam and unknown cylinder head job, I don't think your #'s are terrible. Yes you can get 500hp out of a 440, but it has to be a properly thought out combo, not just random parts thrown together.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: FuryBoy]
#769983
08/10/10 01:47 AM
08/10/10 01:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,090 Saskatchewan, Canada
barracudabob
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,090
Saskatchewan, Canada
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Quote:
imho...
Dyno numbers are BS. 1/4 mile times are the true judge...
I agree. Take it and get some timeslips, then start looking for more power.
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: barracudabob]
#769984
08/10/10 02:07 AM
08/10/10 02:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,185 Nanaimo, BC
NOrrTH
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,185
Nanaimo, BC
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You guys are gods. Honestly I wouldn't have bought this car if I didn't have the ability to reference here FBO and Roadrunner Nest.
ANd it was a Dynojet chassis dyno, so ya RWHP thank god or I would be in serious trouble.
It still moves the car very well, not as well as my old 340 Duster or 440+6 4spd Challenger mind you.
Last edited by NOrrTH; 08/10/10 02:09 AM.
'71 GTX N96 auto 3:55
'74 Challenger 440+6 4spd 4:10
'71 Duster 340 auto 4:10
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Re: Dyno'd my 440 and was disappointed - Questions question
[Re: NOrrTH]
#769985
08/10/10 02:53 AM
08/10/10 02:53 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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need more info...
Were those numbers the uncorrected HP and torque, or were they SAE corrected numbers? If they were uncorrected numbers what Temperature, Humidity, and Altitude when tested? What were the RPM at peak HP and peak Torque? If it has the standard Performer intake, it is not much better than the stock intake? To get 500 crankshaft HP with stock heads, the heads are usually ported and have larger 2.14"/1.81" valves. With aftermarket heads, 500 HP is pretty easy to get.
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