Re: Which aluminum heads
[Re: Von]
#708714
05/29/10 06:36 PM
05/29/10 06:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Im not and have never been a fan of the Source stuff. With the increasing numbers of cracked Source heads, Eddys or the MP 452 heads are the only way Id go. Plus the Eddys/452s flow a little more than the Source heads, un ported.
Basically the hardware with the Source heads is useless with any cam..............not mention my experience with a few of their other parts.
I emailed 440source and they sent me the updated version of the their valve locks/retainers, for free I had to pay a couple dollars for shipping. They do just fine with my lunati 60303 cam. If you want to run any serious cam, you will be replacing the stock hardware with on 440source heads. If you want to run any serious cam, you will also be replacing stock hardware on eddy rpm heads.
As for flow #'s right OOTB, here's an eddy rpm vs 440source flow test done several years back by moparts member fast68plymouth soon after the source heads hit the market. At higher lifts the eddys do flow about 3% better than the source heads and at the very low lifts the source heads flow a hair better.
Quote:
4.375 bore, 28" test pressure, radius plate on intake, no tube on exhaust:
average flow for #5 and #7 cylinder
lift----I/E .100--63.8/49.0 .200-140.5/104.1 .300-207.8/139.7 .400-239.2/164.6 .450-248.1/172.5 .500-256.1/177.8 .550-261.5/182.6 .600-265.3/188.2 .650-267.3/191.5 .700-267.3/195.8
here is an OOTB E head i tested recently, also the average for a left and right cylinder:
lift----I/E .100--66.1/50.8 .200-138.3/105.4 .300-203.8/140.5 .400-243.1/163.6 .450-258.0/170.4 .500-265.7/178.6 .550-272.3/185.3 .600-276.5/190.3 .650-276.1/194.6 .700-275.7/197.3
I've read chrisf's issues with the 440source heads before and that is really crazy what happened to his heads. I was on the waiting list for source heads and got mine when they first came out, however they sat on the shelf for years and I'm about to take them off my 440 for a motor rebuild but haven't put much miles on the source heads.
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Re: Which aluminum heads
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#708715
05/29/10 08:09 PM
05/29/10 08:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 580 PA
Moparzrule
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 580
PA
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Are the MP heads open or closed chamber? Mancini doesn't state, it just says 84cc chamber. I assume they are closed chamber.
My Own Personal Adrenaline Rush
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Re: Which aluminum heads
[Re: Moparzrule]
#708716
05/30/10 12:59 AM
05/30/10 12:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
Are the MP heads open or closed chamber? Mancini doesn't state, it just says 84cc chamber. I assume they are closed chamber.
' Yep, they are closed.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Which aluminum heads
[Re: Von]
#708717
05/30/10 10:30 PM
05/30/10 10:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,630 North Central Florida
eightlitermopar
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,630
North Central Florida
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this is exactly why I do alot of thinking before I drop any money for something like this....even if it won't make a huge difference on my mild motors....... I am really intrigued with the mopar 452 heads. I am also enticed by hughes engines doing a CNC port job on the eddy heads. I have not found a place that offers that for these mopar 452 heads. If there was, that would seal the deal for me now.... any thoughts or knowledge of a place that does this? I can get the eddy or source heads cnc ported with bigger valves...how about mopar? eight
Mopar or no car
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Re: Which aluminum heads
[Re: eightlitermopar]
#708718
05/30/10 10:38 PM
05/30/10 10:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,201 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,201
Oregon
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Mancini Racing sells the 452 heads with full CNC porting. Check out this article where I used those heads. This article as well as a bunch of other big block articles are in the tech archives on this board. Or go to Amazon.com and search for Mopar Big Block books. I covered the Mopar 452 head in the book along with a bunch of other stuff. http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...lock/index.html
Last edited by AndyF; 05/30/10 10:40 PM.
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Re: Which aluminum heads
[Re: eightlitermopar]
#708720
05/31/10 10:25 AM
05/31/10 10:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,201 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,201
Oregon
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Stage VI head is totally different. You do not want Stage VI heads.
Did you read the article? It has the part number as well as other information about the heads.
Last edited by AndyF; 05/31/10 10:29 AM.
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Re: Which aluminum heads
[Re: chrisf]
#708724
05/31/10 11:44 PM
05/31/10 11:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada
dirtybee
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 807
Toronto, Canada
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Quote:
having had both and still owning 440 source ones i can answer that.
my source heads were the first generation. they needed locks and retainers out of the box as they were poor quality. emailed brandon and never even got a response (you will soon see a pattern here). no biggie. bolted them on my 383 while i was building my new 383.
pulled them and took them to dodgefarmer (randy) to check out how they were holding up after 5000miles before i bolted them to my new 383. apparently they had huge amounts of porosity around the water jacket areas. Randy fixed them up (again) and was back in business. emailed brandon again. ignored. send him another, ignored. sent him a final one saying thanks for nothing and the problem was fixed. nothing. He then emails and says he doesnt consider it a problem unless i phone and since the problem was fixed he didnt feel he needed to talk to me. my final email was to brandon sugesting some places he could "store" his parts on his person. if i was selling a product that was poor quality i would want to know what caused the problem. he obvously knew about the problem or didnt care as they were selling well anyways. ride the train until it falls off the tracks i guess
i have probably around $1600 into these heads right now. I bought them for the sole reason to save a couple dollars. in the long run i could have bought eddies and never had any problems.
i have posted of this issue here before and electrolisis may have been a issue. IF thats the case why didnt my eddy heads do the same thing? cheap castings on the source stuff
thanks brandon i hope my post brings in some business for you
good thing the porosity only showed up around the coolant passages and not in the combustion chamber. maybe you should check your coolant
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Re: Which aluminum heads
[Re: dirtybee]
#708725
06/01/10 02:08 AM
06/01/10 02:08 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
good thing the porosity only showed up around the coolant passages and not in the combustion chamber. maybe you should check your coolant
If memory serves, chrisf said 440source gave him some line about coolant ph levels, like anyone ever checks that. Unless you're running pure acid as a coolant this should not be happening.
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Re: Which aluminum heads
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#708727
06/01/10 09:43 AM
06/01/10 09:43 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,616 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,616
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
Quote:
good thing the porosity only showed up around the coolant passages and not in the combustion chamber. maybe you should check your coolant
If memory serves, chrisf said 440source gave him some line about coolant ph levels, like anyone ever checks that. Unless you're running pure acid as a coolant this should not be happening.
Coolant ph is EXACTLY what causes that kind of damage. I see it all the time in big diesels and the ph levels that can do that to cast iron are a long way short of pure acid so it's no surprise that even moderately elevated levels will erode aluminum like that. The fact that nobody ever checks it still doesn't make it 440Source's fault.
Kevin
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Re: Which aluminum heads
[Re: Twostick]
#708728
06/01/10 10:00 AM
06/01/10 10:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,966 British Columbia
chrisf
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,966
British Columbia
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ph could have caused this as i was using tap water to mix the antifreeze. (dont anymore) I said these heads had 5000 miles which may be a stretch. probably closer to 3000. so, in that short of time it ate into the heads. thats a junk casting 50,000 miles maybe, not 3000 my eddy heads used the same tap water mix and had zero problems. i even ran straight tap water for a time with the eddies. wasnt so mad about the problem as happens. I was more mad how i was treated by 440source and the fact that they didnt care.
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