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Just incase anyones intetrest is piqued, heres one for sale in Race Parts section(no i dont know DaveW..just think its a smoking deal!!!)

"...Originally built by David Nickens. Combination made over 1400 HP @ 10,000 RPM.

Brand new 99 Hemi Mopar block
Sonny Bryant crank
MGP rods
Diamond coated pistons w/pins
2 camshafts
Jesel .937 keyway lifters
99 Hemi heads
Titanium valves
Jesel rockers with stands
Mag valve covers
Beck intake manifold
2 new C&S 1050 carbs
Stainless steel header kit with flanges

All for $13,500. PM me or call my...."

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1400hp sounds nice but what kind of power do they make down at 8000rpm?

For pulling im just thinking if that engine got on a sticky track it would pull the engine down from 10000rpm and i was wondering if it would just then die like a high screaming small block. I've seen some of the best 650's just die on a tuff clay track at the end of the track

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And another little sobering dose of reality....

Over the years, all of the biggest and best performance aftermaket companies have spent untold dollars on correcting every factory shortcoming of the Chevy and Ford engines.

Valvetrains unstable??? No problem....shaft rockers. The heads stink??? No problem.....design new ones from scratch and if they deviate from stock appearing, so be it. Short decks??? No problem....raise em'. No matter the issue (and there are 100s), it was solved.

N/A MOPAR engines, big and small have reached their pinnacles from MOPAR.....the W-8 in smallblock wedge, the P-5 in all out smallblock, the HEMI 99' in bigblock.

What we need is the aftermarket to step up and design hardware that solves some of the factory issues.......like the 4.800BS. A series of blocks in different deck heights that will accept state of the art cylinder heads. A killer head already exists in the 99'. That platform is proven and can be built upon.

Imagine CFE, MBE, RFD, Darrin Morgan, etc., creating programs for variations of the 99' style engine or the P-5 smallblocks and updating the castings as required. This is an absolute must, because even if the heads and blocks were readily availible, without R&D from the best people, we'd scrating our butts with developmental shortcomings.

Problem is.....what comes first, the chicken or the egg??? Without the parts, there can be no customers and without the customers, few if any companys are willing to make the investments.

There is no magic in the Chevy or Ford engines....they have simply benefitted from decades of the top guys eliminating their many flaws, without penalty from Ford and Chevy racers crying about how far from "stock" the fixes took their engines. Look at the Profiler, Big Chief, Raptor, etc., do they resemble rectangular port iron BBC junk??? Of course not.

Until a huge investment is made, MOPAR engines will always suffer when trying to compete with engines that have had the luxury of this kind of development.

You can build a killer MOPAR with conventional stuff like the Stage V Millenium, or a B1 PSO with a 4.800 block......but if anyone thinks it will be competitve against a similar sized dedicated race engine they call Ford or Chevy with a set of killer heads from CFE or the like......forget it.

Unfortunately....I won't hold my breath waiting for the hardware or the development to suddenly appear.

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Quote:

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Quote:

---

And another little sobering dose of reality....

Over the years, all of the biggest and best performance aftermaket companies have spent untold dollars on correcting every factory shortcoming of the Chevy and Ford engines.

Valvetrains unstable??? No problem....shaft rockers. The heads stink??? No problem.....design new ones from scratch and if they deviate from stock appearing, so be it. Short decks??? No problem....raise em'. No matter the issue (and there are 100s), it was solved.

N/A MOPAR engines, big and small have reached their pinnacles from MOPAR.....the W-8 in smallblock wedge, the P-5 in all out smallblock, the HEMI 99' in bigblock.

What we need is the aftermarket to step up and design hardware that solves some of the factory issues.......like the 4.800BS. A series of blocks in different deck heights that will accept state of the art cylinder heads. A killer head already exists in the 99'. That platform is proven and can be built upon.

Imagine CFE, MBE, RFD, Darrin Morgan, etc., creating programs for variations of the 99' style engine or the P-5 smallblocks and updating the castings as required. This is an absolute must, because even if the heads and blocks were readily availible, without R&D from the best people, we'd scrating our butts with developmental shortcomings.

Problem is.....what comes first, the chicken or the egg??? Without the parts, there can be no customers and without the customers, few if any companys are willing to make the investments.

There is no magic in the Chevy or Ford engines....they have simply benefitted from decades of the top guys eliminating their many flaws, without penalty from Ford and Chevy racers crying about how far from "stock" the fixes took their engines. Look at the Profiler, Big Chief, Raptor, etc., do they resemble rectangular port iron BBC junk??? Of course not.

Until a huge investment is made, MOPAR engines will always suffer when trying to compete with engines that have had the luxury of this kind of development.

You can build a killer MOPAR with conventional stuff like the Stage V Millenium, or a B1 PSO with a 4.800 block......but if anyone thinks it will be competitve against a similar sized dedicated race engine they call Ford or Chevy with a set of killer heads from CFE or the like......forget it.

Unfortunately....I won't hold my breath waiting for the hardware or the development to suddenly appear.

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This post is absolutely correct. I just don't have the money for R and D.

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what about an engine with the 32 valve hemi heads from covalt?
fully ported with the biggest possbile valves? as far as
I know the only ever produced engine (572cui) with these heads
(basic version)made nearly [Email]1100hp@6900rpm[/Email] with a small cam and
1.80"intake and 1.35" exhaust valves.
but you can go as big as two 1.9" intake valves and two
1.45" exhaust valves. the heads flow close to [Email]490@0.650"[/Email]
lift intake and 330" at the exhaust.

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Weren't those marketed by NRC(same poeple that brought out the first Predators)? Anyway, I have never seen any in an actual car. Not sure if there would be valve train issues at 8000+ rpm or if it was an OHC design..cant remember. But i think it went over like a "Led Zepplin" ..i.e., not much interest. Interesting head, for sure!

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what about an engine with the 32 valve hemi heads from covalt?
fully ported with the biggest possbile valves? as far as
I know the only ever produced engine (572cui) with these heads
(basic version)made nearly [Email]1100hp@6900rpm[/Email] with a small cam and
1.80"intake and 1.35" exhaust valves.
but you can go as big as two 1.9" intake valves and two
1.45" exhaust valves. the heads flow close to [Email]490@0.650"[/Email]
lift intake and 330" at the exhaust.

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Weren't those marketed by NRC(same poeple that brought out the first Predators)? Anyway, I have never seen any in an actual car. Not sure if there would be valve train issues at 8000+ rpm or if it was an OHC design..cant remember. But i think it went over like a "Led Zepplin" ..i.e., not much interest. Interesting head, for sure!

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should be able to turn over 8000 rpm due to the "small" valves.
the weight will be splitted into 4 valves not into 2 which means
less mass.
one single cam in the middle (sorry, forgot the english term for it).

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

---

And another little sobering dose of reality....

Over the years, all of the biggest and best performance aftermaket companies have spent untold dollars on correcting every factory shortcoming of the Chevy and Ford engines.

Valvetrains unstable??? No problem....shaft rockers. The heads stink??? No problem.....design new ones from scratch and if they deviate from stock appearing, so be it. Short decks??? No problem....raise em'. No matter the issue (and there are 100s), it was solved.

N/A MOPAR engines, big and small have reached their pinnacles from MOPAR.....the W-8 in smallblock wedge, the P-5 in all out smallblock, the HEMI 99' in bigblock.

What we need is the aftermarket to step up and design hardware that solves some of the factory issues.......like the 4.800BS. A series of blocks in different deck heights that will accept state of the art cylinder heads. A killer head already exists in the 99'. That platform is proven and can be built upon.

Imagine CFE, MBE, RFD, Darrin Morgan, etc., creating programs for variations of the 99' style engine or the P-5 smallblocks and updating the castings as required. This is an absolute must, because even if the heads and blocks were readily availible, without R&D from the best people, we'd scrating our butts with developmental shortcomings.

Problem is.....what comes first, the chicken or the egg??? Without the parts, there can be no customers and without the customers, few if any companys are willing to make the investments.

There is no magic in the Chevy or Ford engines....they have simply benefitted from decades of the top guys eliminating their many flaws, without penalty from Ford and Chevy racers crying about how far from "stock" the fixes took their engines. Look at the Profiler, Big Chief, Raptor, etc., do they resemble rectangular port iron BBC junk??? Of course not.

Until a huge investment is made, MOPAR engines will always suffer when trying to compete with engines that have had the luxury of this kind of development.

You can build a killer MOPAR with conventional stuff like the Stage V Millenium, or a B1 PSO with a 4.800 block......but if anyone thinks it will be competitve against a similar sized dedicated race engine they call Ford or Chevy with a set of killer heads from CFE or the like......forget it.

Unfortunately....I won't hold my breath waiting for the hardware or the development to suddenly appear.

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This post is absolutely correct. I just don't have the money for R and D.

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I could'nt agree more also,some people with deep pockets need to step up and do as Jim and others suggest..develope these excelent heads we already have.

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The thing is, when people do step up and spend the money, (Chuck and Pete @ Best Machine) the Mopar guys that have the money don't support the effort. They had something like 10 sets of PSO heads made quite a while ago at their expense, and they still have one set left after a couple of years, if not longer. As Chuck pointed out the other day, they are the same money as the fully ported set of M/C's from Koffels. I am not in any way slamming Koffels, just making a point. The bottom line is, the development and outlay of money for a prototype is massive to say the least. And then to have a first run get slowly purchased, is the deterent to most people.

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to get my heads straight.... the hemi millennium head is based on the 4.800 BS and the 99 head is based on the 4.900BS.... Then what are the hemi heads on the 5 inch BS engines... a different generation of the 99 head?

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Just incase anyones intetrest is piqued, heres one for sale in Race Parts section(no i dont know DaveW..just think its a smoking deal!!!)

"...Originally built by David Nickens. Combination made over 1400 HP @ 10,000 RPM.

Brand new 99 Hemi Mopar block
Sonny Bryant crank
MGP rods
Diamond coated pistons w/pins
2 camshafts
Jesel .937 keyway lifters
99 Hemi heads
Titanium valves
Jesel rockers with stands
Mag valve covers
Beck intake manifold
2 new C&S 1050 carbs
Stainless steel header kit with flanges

All for $13,500. PM me or call my...."

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Just incase anyones intetrest is piqued, heres one for sale in Race Parts section(no i dont know DaveW..just think its a smoking deal!!!)

"...Originally built by David Nickens. Combination made over 1400 HP @ 10,000 RPM.

Brand new 99 Hemi Mopar block
Sonny Bryant crank
MGP rods
Diamond coated pistons w/pins
2 camshafts
Jesel .937 keyway lifters
99 Hemi heads
Titanium valves
Jesel rockers with stands
Mag valve covers
Beck intake manifold
2 new C&S 1050 carbs
Stainless steel header kit with flanges

All for $13,500. PM me or call my...."

---

So could it be possible (maybe even smart) to purchase an (low priced high dollar) engine like this then have LSM build a billit block which will allow a BIG bore and stroke to make the 650ci. So you would be just replacing the rotating assembly im guessing pushrods for the taller deck....Intake will need some adjusting.

Or maybe the better route would be to just add deck spacer to the exhisting block and new sleeves.

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If you want more than 550", the best way IMO is to go w/ a CN or LSM Billet block. CN has done one already that utilizes a Chevy crank and pan setup, then utilizes the 99' heads, custom Marcella intake, etc. Unfortunately, the only real usable parts on a NHRA P/S Hemi engine to run this combo are the heads. Even if you go w/ deck spacers, ALOT will need to be changed and in the end, you still are using deck spacer...just my

One bad part about the Billet Block, the CN version block mentioned above is $9500

Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

---

Quote:

---

And another little sobering dose of reality....

Over the years, all of the biggest and best performance aftermaket companies have spent untold dollars on correcting every factory shortcoming of the Chevy and Ford engines.

Valvetrains unstable??? No problem....shaft rockers. The heads stink??? No problem.....design new ones from scratch and if they deviate from stock appearing, so be it. Short decks??? No problem....raise em'. No matter the issue (and there are 100s), it was solved.

N/A MOPAR engines, big and small have reached their pinnacles from MOPAR.....the W-8 in smallblock wedge, the P-5 in all out smallblock, the HEMI 99' in bigblock.

What we need is the aftermarket to step up and design hardware that solves some of the factory issues.......like the 4.800BS. A series of blocks in different deck heights that will accept state of the art cylinder heads. A killer head already exists in the 99'. That platform is proven and can be built upon.

Imagine CFE, MBE, RFD, Darrin Morgan, etc., creating programs for variations of the 99' style engine or the P-5 smallblocks and updating the castings as required. This is an absolute must, because even if the heads and blocks were readily availible, without R&D from the best people, we'd scrating our butts with developmental shortcomings.

Problem is.....what comes first, the chicken or the egg??? Without the parts, there can be no customers and without the customers, few if any companys are willing to make the investments.

There is no magic in the Chevy or Ford engines....they have simply benefitted from decades of the top guys eliminating their many flaws, without penalty from Ford and Chevy racers crying about how far from "stock" the fixes took their engines. Look at the Profiler, Big Chief, Raptor, etc., do they resemble rectangular port iron BBC junk??? Of course not.

Until a huge investment is made, MOPAR engines will always suffer when trying to compete with engines that have had the luxury of this kind of development.

You can build a killer MOPAR with conventional stuff like the Stage V Millenium, or a B1 PSO with a 4.800 block......but if anyone thinks it will be competitve against a similar sized dedicated race engine they call Ford or Chevy with a set of killer heads from CFE or the like......forget it.

Unfortunately....I won't hold my breath waiting for the hardware or the development to suddenly appear.

---

This post is absolutely correct. I just don't have the money for R and D.

---

I could'nt agree more also,some people with deep pockets need to step up and do as Jim and others suggest..develope these excelent heads we already have.

---

The thing is, when people do step up and spend the money, (Chuck and Pete @ Best Machine) the Mopar guys that have the money don't support the effort. They had something like 10 sets of PSO heads made quite a while ago at their expense, and they still have one set left after a couple of years, if not longer. As Chuck pointed out the other day, they are the same money as the fully ported set of M/C's from Koffels. I am not in any way slamming Koffels, just making a point. The bottom line is, the development and outlay of money for a prototype is massive to say the least. And then to have a first run get slowly purchased, is the deterent to most people.

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And, as good as the 99 head is, it is light years behind the other stuff as far as development. There are new Chevy and Ford style heads everyday. That is not going to happen with Mopars

Monte

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Not that I would presume to know what Monte is thinking, but I'm guessing he means the ability to pick up the phone and call any of the top cylinder head shops and simply write a check for the latest HEMI 99' program......like the Chevy and Ford guys can with their unconventional heads.

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Not that I would presume to know what Monte is thinking, but I'm guessing he means the ability to pick up the phone and call any of the top cylinder head shops and simply write a check for the latest HEMI 99' program......like the Chevy and Ford guys can with their unconventional heads.

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Sad but true. I have thought many times about making the change to Chevy, but couldn't bring myself to do it. I'm just a Mopar guy and always will be. Maybe part of that is know the crap I'll get for switching sides.

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