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Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: tywebb2] #698848
05/22/10 04:47 PM
05/22/10 04:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
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Near Reading PA USA
pinkduster Offline
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I've wondered the exact same thing.

Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: tywebb2] #698849
05/22/10 05:16 PM
05/22/10 05:16 PM
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340B5 Offline
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The right rear actually rises up into the body from the pinion trying to climb the ring gear. This causes the springs to wrap up(especially on the right) and that is why there are more leafs on the right. Also they are shifted forward. Our friend gravity causes the body to drop down on the back right when the diff. tries to rise.

EDIT...just noticed..right side sits lower?..In rear?

Last edited by 340B5; 05/22/10 05:32 PM.

Yeah, it's got a smallblock.
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: 340B5] #698850
05/22/10 09:29 PM
05/22/10 09:29 PM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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Yeah...the right rear (passenger) side sits lower on my car with the SS springs installed. Is this right?


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: tywebb2] #698851
05/22/10 10:39 PM
05/22/10 10:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
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Near Reading PA USA
pinkduster Offline
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Quote:

Yeah...the right rear (passenger) side sits lower on my car with the SS springs installed. Is this right?




My Road Runner is the same way. Lower on the right rear. (Right 27.25" - Left 28.25")

I did some mearsuring on my car today and disconnected the swaybar and rechecked the measurements. There was no change in suspension travel. It seems that the upper control arm is hitting the rubber bumpers before the swaybar (or lack of) even comes into play.

Checked Mancini's website for shorter bumpers but didn't see anything. Thinking about removing them tomorrow. I wonder how much I can cut off before I start to hit the stud. I wish I had an extra one to mess with first.

Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: tywebb2] #698852
05/22/10 11:53 PM
05/22/10 11:53 PM
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340B5 Offline
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No this is not right. You might check for a broken spring. Should set higher on the right rear. Spring on right rear should have more leaves and the short leaves on the right rear spring should be shifted toward the front of the spring.

Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: 340B5] #698853
05/23/10 07:54 AM
05/23/10 07:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

No this is not right. You might check for a broken spring. Should set higher on the right rear. Spring on right rear should have more leaves and the short leaves on the right rear spring should be shifted toward the front of the spring.




Might be that the right spring is starting to flatten
out... reason isnt because of the pinion climbing the
ring gear but when you launch the torque rolls the
car to the right... pinion causes the lift... but
the rearend is trying to roll around the drive shaft
with a counter action... right side is trying to
lift up and drive the left into the ground... more
so in higher torque engines

Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: 340B5] #698854
05/23/10 07:58 AM
05/23/10 07:58 AM
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central ohio
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nss guy Offline
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Quote:

No this is not right. You might check for a broken spring. Should set higher on the right rear. Spring on right rear should have more leaves and the short leaves on the right rear spring should be shifted toward the front of the spring.



Could have the torsion bars adjusted wrong, causing it to sit like that.
10.50-12.00 second cars don't need anything fancy. I have Dvorak leaf springs, look about like Tri City, Mopar trail duster rear shocks ($25) and Calvert 90/10's up front. mid 1.40 60ft's, my car rarely ever spins the tires.

5998199-ntr71.jpg (21 downloads)
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: nss guy] #698855
05/23/10 09:47 AM
05/23/10 09:47 AM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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The torsion bars are adjusted evenly up front as measured by the upper pivot in the LCA. The length of the thread/bolt head exposed on the adjusting bolt for the torsion bars is about 1 7/8" on both sides.

The springs I have now are 4 years old although I don't run the car much. I seem to think the car always sat lower on the right side with these springs though but I am not 100% sure of this.

If the car really should be sitting higher on the right side do I need to be thinking about new springs? Tri-city...dvorak...caltracs?

Here is a pic of how the car sits.

5998310-IMG_0908.jpg (38 downloads)

'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: tywebb2] #698856
05/23/10 10:01 AM
05/23/10 10:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
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central ohio
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nss guy Offline
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I would crank up the rightside (passenger) torsion bar and see if the car levels out. My car sat that same way last w/e. No problem with the hook, I did crank up the rightside torsion bar to level it later in the day.The other thing you might try is to add 100lbs of ballast to the trunk and see if the car will hook. Pinion angle is not going to help it hook, more to help the U joints live when the rearend rolls up under power.

5998330-smallBPF.jpg (41 downloads)
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: tywebb2] #698857
05/23/10 10:05 AM
05/23/10 10:05 AM
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ill
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dennismopar73 Offline
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if didnt know better say leaf where switch

or wrong springs on car to start

Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: dennismopar73] #698858
05/23/10 10:47 AM
05/23/10 10:47 AM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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When I was playing around with the torsion bars the other night the rear got a little better (1" lower on right side) but I had the passenger side t-bar cranked up pretty far and the drivers side was all but unloaded.

I checked the part#'s on the springs before I put them back in and they are correct for a 3600lb. E-body. There are 5-leafs on the drivers side and 6-leafs on the passenger side. To me it seems like everything is set up right?


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: nss guy] #698859
05/23/10 10:50 AM
05/23/10 10:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532
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340B5 Offline
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A call to Dvorak would be entertaining if nothing else. I like that guy, he tells it like it is and he don't mind helping people.
(352) 468-1353

Last edited by 340B5; 05/23/10 02:20 PM.
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: tywebb2] #698860
05/23/10 11:01 AM
05/23/10 11:01 AM
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dennismopar73 Offline
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ok i'll be more serious now
torsion bars are most likley the issue
you shouldnt have to crank these out of site
i make mine same both sides normal ride height as came from factory
understanding that the motor does sit to one side of car,, pass side,,
but i still make my ride height the same both side of front,, + or - 1/2 " for my desire?
then fix the rear of the car
but on ss springs i always go heavy ,,
if the car is 3400 # i'll run 3800# springs
same on 3200# cars
m o only

Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: nss guy] #698861
05/23/10 12:53 PM
05/23/10 12:53 PM
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Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

No this is not right. You might check for a broken spring. Should set higher on the right rear. Spring on right rear should have more leaves and the short leaves on the right rear spring should be shifted toward the front of the spring.



Could have the torsion bars adjusted wrong, causing it to sit like that.
10.50-12.00 second cars don't need anything fancy. I have Dvorak leaf springs, look about like Tri City, Mopar trail duster rear shocks ($25) and Calvert 90/10's up front. mid 1.40 60ft's, my car rarely ever spins the tires.


" "10.50-12 second cars don't need anything fancy". 10.5" tires, a posi unit thats in good shape ( how's yours), snubber, decent springs ( they don't have to be SS springs),90-10's up front and 50-50's in the back and you should be good to go at most any track. My car is living proof. Runs consistant 11.71's with front and rear sway bars hooked up and stock torsion bars.


Fastest 300
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: Crizila] #698862
05/23/10 02:55 PM
05/23/10 02:55 PM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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I called Dvorak and he was short on time but told me to pull the leaf springs and turn them upside down. The right side spring should at least 1" taller than the left. If it is not then I have bad springs. He also told me to find a local spring shop that could build a set of springs if I give them a blueprint. That is about all I got for today. I am supposed to call him back tomorrow.

I pulled the springs and at the perch/mount the right side is about 1/2" taller only because of the (2) extra short leafs on that side. Moving down the back of the arc the largest difference is +3/4" taller on the right side spring. He didn't tell me where to measure but at no point is the right side spring +1" taller compared to the left.

Here is a pic with the left spring in front of the right.

Last edited by tywebb2; 05/23/10 03:33 PM.

'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: tywebb2] #698863
05/23/10 02:56 PM
05/23/10 02:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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This is a little closer shot. Not sure if you can really tell anything from them or not?


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: tywebb2] #698864
05/23/10 08:02 PM
05/23/10 08:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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I can tell ya springs aint your problem.


Fastest 300
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: Crizila] #698865
05/23/10 10:30 PM
05/23/10 10:30 PM
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Branson, Mo.
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joedust451 Offline
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Looking at your video again, it appears the front end just doesn't jump up high enough to overcome the rear, then right after launch it drops back down, thats your problem, plus the car sits too high in the rear, if it were me, i'd try & level it off & get the front to jump up easy & be higher then the rear at launch.


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: joedust451] #698866
05/24/10 09:36 PM
05/24/10 09:36 PM
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Posts: 1,221
Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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While I probably could get away with using the existing springs it just bugs the crap out of me that my car sits so low on the right side (which is also the wrong side). If I am looking at making changes to things I figure I mine as well start with a set of leaf springs that are right....right?

I have been back and forth with Dan Dvorak a couple more times. The peak of the arc on my springs is at about 10 1/4" on the left and 10 3/4" on the right. He said that is way to high and it should be around 7". He said that alone would cause the rear to sit too high and not allow the front end to lift enough to overcome the center of gravity? The rear shackles are both pointing back at the correct angle so he doesn't know what Mopar did when they made them? He said we could take some arc out of them but then the rear shackles would be pointing back way to far so the springs would most likely need to be shortened. It sounds like a lot of trial and error and work to try to get them right.

So at this point it is going to take some modifications to the springs that are on the car or just go with the Caltracs set-up and be done with it. Dvorak actually commented that he used to build springs but got out of it because everybody was switching to Caltracs.


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: Traction Problems......looking for suggestions [Re: tywebb2] #698867
05/24/10 09:46 PM
05/24/10 09:46 PM
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acworth / N. georgia - south e...
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dont throw the old ones out..
they sound like B body station wagon springs..
to the right person they may be useable.
cheapst


365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
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