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Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: HealthServices] #696125 05/14/10 01:12 PM 05/14/10 01:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA 64physhy OP member
64physhy OP member Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA	Quote: Quote: Are you saying that just running the positive cable through the kill switch is not NHRA legal? Kill switch must kill a running motor. They did a running test on my car 2 weeks ago when I was at the track. Most cars will continue to run if the pos battery cable is removed. If you have a four prong switch and MSD, this is one way to kill the ignition when the switch is thrown. It is also a good way if you have a high amp alternator. Note the MSD only needs a power signal to turn on and off the ignition. Voltage lost is not an issue for the signal wire. Allen, In the first diagram you posted, is the green wire going to the Ford Solenoid the one that normally goes from the relay to the starter? Also, my switch only has two terminals, not 4 like shown, so would the wire (blue) in the diagram go to the same terminal as the hot wire coming out? Last edited by 64physhy; 05/14/10 01:14 PM.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: 64physhy] #696126 05/14/10 01:51 PM 05/14/10 01:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal HealthServices Why would you even post that?
HealthServices Why would you even post that? Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal	With only a two prong switch and a ford starter solinoid try this... Oh the green wire is the wire that would normally go to the starter. 5982412-twoprongwithfordstarter.jpg (37 downloads) Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: 64physhy] #696127 05/14/10 01:54 PM 05/14/10 01:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Not sure which switch you have. If you have a 4 prong, run the black ground wire from your distributor back to the small terminals on the switch, when you throw it, ground is broken to the distributor, car should shuts down. Ground the other side of the small terminal to the chassis/battery. Kind of the same way that Allen has it in the MSD one except use the ground, not power, as the circuit interruption.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: HealthServices] #696128 05/14/10 02:57 PM 05/14/10 02:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA 64physhy OP member
64physhy OP member Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA	Quote: With only a two prong switch and a ford starter solinoid try this... Oh the green wire is the wire that would normally go to the starter. That one looks easy enough. The alt wire is still always going to be hot though. I guess it's always hot with a stock set-up too, isn't it? Thanks again for your patience and help. Where in So Cal are you? I plan on getting this thing to the Barona track sometime this summer.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: 64physhy] #696129 05/14/10 03:18 PM 05/14/10 03:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal HealthServices Why would you even post that?
HealthServices Why would you even post that? Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal	I'm in orange county basically N. Tustin, one day I'll swing by Barona just to see what it is like. Yes the alt will be hot always if routed that way. Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: RobX4406] #696130 05/14/10 03:23 PM 05/14/10 03:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal HealthServices Why would you even post that?
HealthServices Why would you even post that? Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal	With just a two prong switch, you could mount 2 master switches and use a tandem link rod to switch them on and off. The second master switch for the MSD can be a lower cost switch since it carries a lighter load. This way if you were to use Rob's version of wiring it would look something like this If I understand how Rob was saying it. But with all these systems test it to make sure the motor will die after throwing the switch. 5982537-twomasterdisconnect.jpg (45 downloads)

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: HealthServices] #696131 05/14/10 03:50 PM 05/14/10 03:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Quote: With just a two prong switch, you could mount 2 master switches and use a tandem link rod to switch them on and off. This way if you were to use Rob's version of wiring it would look something like this If I understand how Rob was saying it. Yep that's it. Allen, you becoming the master of photoshop? Nice work.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: RobX4406] #696132 05/14/10 03:53 PM 05/14/10 03:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal HealthServices Why would you even post that?
HealthServices Why would you even post that? Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal	Thanks Actually this just using the paint program with Vista! But I am learning more stuff on photoshop, and now learning a little about moving gif. I started with these pictures... https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1 5982603-decentburnout.gif (33 downloads) Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: HealthServices] #696133 05/14/10 09:20 PM 05/14/10 09:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA 64physhy OP member
64physhy OP member Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA	Would it make a difference if I routed the power to the Disconnect Switch first, and then go to the Solenoid? In all the examples, it's going to the solenoid first, then to the switch. I'm using a Mac, or I'd draw I diagram on paint, but what I'm thinking is : Battery to disconnect Disconnect to solenoid Solenoid to Starter Starter to hot terminal on Relay Wire from Relay to Solenoid (Green Wire on above diagrams) Pretty much the same as the examples, except going through switch first, and no running the hot wire for the relay all the way back. Will this do the same thing? I've got the Alternator to Batt routed, and got a circuit breaker to put in line.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: 64physhy] #696134 05/14/10 09:27 PM 05/14/10 09:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal HealthServices Why would you even post that?
HealthServices Why would you even post that? Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal	Going to the battery side of the switch then to the solenoid, gives you more potential for voltage loss. Each additional spice and connection to the starter means more voltage loss at the starter. This is why I put the cable going to the starter first then to the starter relay rather than the other way around. Less potential for voltage loss. And with this way of thinking you could have one line go directly from the battery to the switch instead of from the battery to the solenoid and then to switch. But at the same time I do not like a lot of connections at the battery itself, so using the battery side of the ford solenoid as a power take off is good. 5983095-two2prongwithfordstarter1.jpg (42 downloads) Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: HealthServices] #696135 05/14/10 09:36 PM 05/14/10 09:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal HealthServices Why would you even post that?
HealthServices Why would you even post that? Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal	Boy I'm loss as to which diagram you decided to use. I photochop a dual switch in place of the single I have. This will give you an idea what I mean by using two master disconnects. If you have a high amp alternator and want to disconnect it, this would work rather than using a very expensive high amp 4 prong disconnect. 5983111-dualbatterydisconnect1.jpg (39 downloads) Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: HealthServices] #696136 05/14/10 11:01 PM 05/14/10 11:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA 64physhy OP member
64physhy OP member Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA	I was using the one you posted before the one with 2 switches. The one with the 2 post cut off switch. I ran a circuit breaker between the alt and batt. After I started routing wires and getting a real visual pic, I realized that it will not work to have the solenoid after the cut-off switch with the hot wire to the relay coming from the starter because then I'll have no power except when I'm cranking. So, I guess I'll have to suck it up and go buy some more wire (already bought 45' worth, and it just reached. What gauge should the wire from the switch to the relay be? I have enough 8 gauge to reach, if that's heavy enough. Thank you, Dave

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: 64physhy] #696137 05/14/10 11:04 PM 05/14/10 11:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal HealthServices Why would you even post that?
HealthServices Why would you even post that? Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal	This one right? 5983332-twoprongwithfordstarter.jpg (79 downloads) Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: HealthServices] #696138 05/14/10 11:07 PM 05/14/10 11:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal HealthServices Why would you even post that?
HealthServices Why would you even post that? Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal	There is no wire from the starter to the mopar relay. The only heavy wire you need is the one from the ford starter relay to the starter, and the ford starter relay to the battery. Everything else can be lighter guage. Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: HealthServices] #696139 05/14/10 11:08 PM 05/14/10 11:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA 64physhy OP member
64physhy OP member Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA	That's the one. The only one I still need to run is the red one labeled "lighter gauge wire". Will 8 gauge be enough, or do I need to go buy more 6 or 4 gauge?

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: HealthServices] #696140 05/14/10 11:10 PM 05/14/10 11:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA 64physhy OP member
64physhy OP member Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA	Quote: There is no wire from the starter to the mopar relay. The only heavy wire you need is the one from the ford starter relay to the starter, and the ford starter relay to the battery. Everything else can be lighter guage. Yeah, it was an idea I was kicking around until I realized that if I did it that way (not the way of the diagram, the way in my head), I would only have power when cranking because of the solenoid.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: 64physhy] #696141 05/14/10 11:11 PM 05/14/10 11:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal HealthServices Why would you even post that?
HealthServices Why would you even post that? Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal	8 guage from alt to battery is good. 8 would be good from the master switch to the mopar starter relay as well. 14 would work for the starter signal. Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: HealthServices] #696142 05/14/10 11:13 PM 05/14/10 11:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA 64physhy OP member
64physhy OP member Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 154 Escondido, CA	Good. Thank you. I used 6 from the alt to the batt. Well, back to running wires. Thanks again for all your help. I'm sure I've been a real PITA.

Re: Questions about relocating the battery. [Re: 64physhy] #696143 05/14/10 11:15 PM 05/14/10 11:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal HealthServices Why would you even post that?
HealthServices Why would you even post that? Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,759 So Cal	eh, its alright I'm taking care of the little one today and work was slow. Keeps my mind going Make sure you jumper the two posts on the starter. These two if you use a mini starter. 5983353-starterterminals.jpg (37 downloads) Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.

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