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I was just kidding about the cars in the rain pics, every ad that I see the cars are in the rain.

You obviously have had experience with the Keisler installs. But it is interesting that there are some installs that need to be broke in. Is this the experience that the "Happy Folks" have had with the Tremec 5 speed? Just trying to get a concensus here.


Ron,....I just "razzin" you about the "dry" track photos ..........as far as break in time on the Keislers/TKO's,.....everyone I've installed needed time to "loosen" up, I've had some that from shipping got dropped on the mainshaft and locked the tranny up!( usally when the box shows up with the mainshaft sticking out! it's gonna be a "fun" day!).......I've had those "head banging" days too installing these things, usally it when a new design is being fitted, or trying to prototype some part for Keisler........you don't want to know what a "nightmare" the 71 B body bench shifter location was trying to nail down.......I wanted it purely mechanical,.....Keisler wanted to go remote, (electronic)......eventually "mechanical" won out...........but overall I've been impressed with Keisler, and their product,......IMAO, their unit (TKO5)far exceeds Gear Vendors(727/833OD) offerings in performance and reliability......all the GV users,.....wait until the day your "tooling" along at 100 MPH+ and your unit drops out(electronically) and the rear locks up!......hope you have the driving skills to handle the car..........
Ron

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I've read this whole thread with great interest, because I have been contemplating the swap from 727 to TKO600 for quite a while. I'm just wondering if all the problems cited are related to units from Keisler. Has anyone used a kit from Classic Mopar 5-speed? Is there any difference in their units? Do they have the same sort of problems?

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My kit is from Classic 5. I also had to modify my E Body tunnel where the upper rear pass side of the trans case is. I probably had to dimple the sheet metal about 1" in several spots just to get the trans high enough for the new cross member to go under it. When I was done the tail shaft was several inches lower that my rear pinion yoke. Part of this may be due to the fact that my body ride height is several inches lower than stock. I had some driveline vibration and after some trial and error I eliminated all or most of it by shimming my pinion angle about 3-4 degrees down. At first it shifted smooth as a babys behind but after several full power speed shifts it became a bit sticky especially when sitting still and going into reverse or first. I adjusted the clutch linkage several times and this seemed to help. However I suspect that on one of my "Ronnie Sox" wannabe shifts the bellhousing became slightly misaligned and is causing the problem. Overall I am happy with the swap although by the time I bought a new bellhousing, pistol grip and clutch and flywheel I was at or just over $4K . I was able to sell my old set up which helped take some of the sting out of the price. I did my swap on a friends lift which is the only way to go if you can. It took more than "one weekend" however. Even with someone helping it was more like 3-4 days before it was on the road.

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My kit is from Classic 5. I also had to modify my E Body tunnel where the upper rear pass side of the trans case is. I probably had to dimple the sheet metal about 1" in several spots just to get the trans high enough for the new cross member to go under it. When I was done the tail shaft was several inches lower that my rear pinion yoke. Part of this may be due to the fact that my body ride height is several inches lower than stock. I had some driveline vibration and after some trial and error I eliminated all or most of it by shimming my pinion angle about 3-4 degrees down.

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I've been considering doing the swap on my '70 Dart with a SB. I recently had the opportunity at the Spring Fling to chat at length with Scott Lindquist and one of the tech guys (I forget his name)from Classic 5 speed about a new kit they are developing for the A-bodies. They are taking a really different approach. They have just accepted the fact that it is impossible to install a TKO in an A-body without a lot of cutting so they have decided to go all the way. The kit will require you to cut out the upper center section of the T-bar x-member and a surrounding area of floor. The kit will include a new, permanently mounted, upper x-member to tie into the ends of the T-bar x-member and a new section of floor. It will also, of course, have a new bolt in lower trans x-member. By going this route they will be able to use unmodified TKO transmissions, avoiding the complicated redesign and machining that they and Keisler have employed in previous applications. They also claim that by avoiding the machine work on the trannies and using a stock TKO 500 or 600 they can knock about $700 off the price of the kits! I've been staying in touch with them by e-mail and they say they should have the first kits for sale around the end of the month. I'm very interested, but after reading this thread I will have some very pointed questions for them about hydraulic T/O bearings, etc. before I buy. Probably won't be much of an issue though, as my motor only makes about 350 ft/lbs of torque and rarely sees over 6000 rpm.

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A lot of the negative crap gets slung by people that never owned one or ever will have one. Lots of hapl ford and gm guys running them as well as most mopar guys. You just dont see the happy ones crying.

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What other manual O/D options are out there? Money is no object.

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Transzilla
http://www.rsgear.com/transzilla.asp

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I'm glad I'm reading this now because I was considering upgrading my 4sp 71 RR to a 5 speed, but I need to shift up to at least 6500.

I'm no transmission expert. If the aftermarket trans needs a million alignment modifications, then forget it.

What other manual O/D options are out there? Money is no object.

Jim

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What other manual O/D options are out there? Money is no object.

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Transzilla
http://www.rsgear.com/transzilla.asp

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No disrespect to Mercman but the bottom line is - E-body guys- if you are not willing to cut the floor - don't buy this trans kit.

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I have a kiesler tremec setup in my superbird clone I purchased it in 2000. Within months I had the shiftrods fall apart. I had to remove top of trans. They had used drift pins that were to loose. Had to send trans back for warranty work. I bought complete kit including bell housing. Trans shifts like a big truck. Now I guess they have a updated shift tower but keisler has never sent me info so I could solve my problem. I have always had clutch problems. I installed their mccleod clutch first had very high peddle effort and the pressure plate finally failed. They then sold me a diaphram clutch and told remove me to remove the overcenter spring. I never did remove the over center spring because I know how hard they are to replace. I tried to tell them that is the wrong for a mopar but they assured me it would work. If you drive normal it's fine try to shift it under hard acceleration cluth pedal sticks to floor. I have so many other projects at work and at home I just gave up and I've just lived with this for years. But it doesn't work right. I remember when I started this project they tried to talk me into their hyd clutch. Come to find out the first ones were junk. Glad I didn't listen to them on that one. If they have poor engineering they should offer updates to us poor suckers stuck with their junk. I have a gear vendors in my duster that runs 10.30 has been there for 4 years not one problem. I only spent 2300 for it you tell me which is best. Bill

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For those that think shifter location is an option...it is not unless you want to do MAJOR surgery. On an E-body the shifter does not enter the top of the trans and move the rail directly... it mounts to a bracket bolted to the rear of the trans.A clevis type device (red arrow) moves the rail (green arrow)I also had a lot of shifter shake which Kiesler repaired for me while the trans was in for repairs.

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None to you either, but you missed a few:

No Shifts above 6000rpm
No fast shifts from 2-3rd
No hydraulic clutch bearing that will hold-up
No warrenty for wrong/defective items
Not a bolt in
Not done in a "week end"
Not just $4000K and your done

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My point was that if the trans was installed correctly some of the problems may have been eliminated and the E-body floor issue has been well documented. I personally would not be looking at a basic Keisler kit for drag racing applications either (I.E.-high RPM shifting). I will be running a basically stock 340 and 4.10 gears and want to be able to enjoy more driveability with the steep gears - I believe that to be what the kit is marketed for. It amazes me how some think for $3495 you are going to get the holy grail of racing transmissions. My personal opinion is if Mercman would dimple the floor and use his original mechanical linkage instead of the "wifey" hydraulic- chances are he would have been much happier.