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Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: moparts] #685463
05/01/10 08:45 PM
05/01/10 08:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

The pump is made by Cat and is sold by many different people.


I have a NIB cat pump going onto a mild 451


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Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: fourgearsavoy] #685464
05/01/10 09:00 PM
05/01/10 09:00 PM
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Dougsmopars Offline OP
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in stop and go traffic it pegged the gauge. Starts to ping at light throttle, it's hot. As mentioned by others engine compartment heat is high. Heat radiating off motor is much higher then before. Plenty of complaints on those 440 source houseings and pumps. I'll try changing the pump. It's way cheaper then a motor.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: moparts] #685465
05/01/10 09:02 PM
05/01/10 09:02 PM
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Dougsmopars Offline OP
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The houseing passage is much smaller then hole in block. I can't even get a finger in the port on houseing

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Challenger 1] #685466
05/01/10 09:03 PM
05/01/10 09:03 PM
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Dougsmopars Offline OP
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Same fan that was on it before swapping the houseing and pump. Works fine.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Dougsmopars] #685467
05/01/10 09:07 PM
05/01/10 09:07 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

The houseing passage is much smaller then hole in block. I can't even get a finger in the port on houseing


That IS a prob


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Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Dougsmopars] #685468
05/01/10 09:10 PM
05/01/10 09:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Quote:

Same fan that was on it before swapping the houseing and pump. Works fine.




They do go bad, expecially if there stored flat and put back on the car.

It's what keeps the engine cool(fan clutch) during stop and go. You should be able to hear the fan when it's working during hi temps.

I've seen em go bad with more than one car over the years.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Challenger 1] #685469
05/01/10 09:14 PM
05/01/10 09:14 PM
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Dougsmopars Offline OP
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Well it was only off the car for 3 days while i changed the cam and houseing. I doubt it went bad in those 3 days. Yes you can hear it working. Car ran rock steady at 180 to 190 all day in 90 degree heat. Now with that houseing it runs very hot and it's only 75 degrees out.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Dougsmopars] #685470
05/01/10 09:18 PM
05/01/10 09:18 PM
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Suffolk,VA
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ireland383 Offline
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Sounds like an air pocket.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: RapidRobert] #685471
05/01/10 09:25 PM
05/01/10 09:25 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline
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Ok, so you changed the water pump, water pump housing, and the CAM...and you think the overheating is from the water pump?

I'd look at the cam swap before the water pump. with a cam change, your carb will need re-tuned, and your timing will need re-tuned. you could be lean, your timing could be way off...and that could be a HUGE reason for running hot.

I'd suspect that before the water pump.


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Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Dougsmopars] #685472
05/01/10 09:30 PM
05/01/10 09:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline
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Quote:

The houseing passage is much smaller then hole in block. I can't even get a finger in the port on houseing




ok, that might be a problem...can you open it up at all to be at least as big as the holes in the block?

my housing from 440 source works fine...I had to replace the pump though, but only because my custom serp set-up has the pump spinning backards, so I needed a pump with straight vanes that would work when spun backwards.


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Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: ireland383] #685473
05/01/10 09:31 PM
05/01/10 09:31 PM
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Fredericktown, PA 15333
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Quote:

Sounds like an air pocket.






Maund Motorworks--supplier of high performance Mopar engines--specializing in B, RB, and Hemi. www.maundmotorworks.com
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: 70Cuda383] #685474
05/01/10 09:32 PM
05/01/10 09:32 PM
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Dougsmopars Offline OP
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And you should read the whole post before speaking. Carb is set timing is set. Carb is actually a bit rich not lean.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: 70Cuda383] #685475
05/01/10 09:33 PM
05/01/10 09:33 PM
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The Dalles, OR.
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Dusted_Ya Offline
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First off what cam are you running. Second what is your initial timing? Third and most importantly did you use a NEW valley pan? I did a cam change on a motor with less than 500 miles on it and reused the old the valley pan. after changing everything out 2-3 times I finally pulled the intake and sure enough it was sucking air and oil out of the valley area. Funny thing was it didn't run like it had a vacuum leak and the plugs never showed oil consumption but after I changed the pan it stopped overheating.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: ireland383] #685476
05/01/10 09:34 PM
05/01/10 09:34 PM
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NH
Fastback67 Offline
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Change the pump and change the thermostat to a 180. The housing will be fine... Yes it has a smaller port on one side, but so do many of the other (flow balanced) aftermarket housings.... 440 Source just happens to be the smallest.
Bottom line... I ran a whole series of controlled bench tests a while back using various housings and pumps...and the 440 Source housing with a stock pump flowed just as well as the stock Mopar housing with the same pump. The 440 Source pump however, was the dog of the bunch, especially at low rpm's.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Dusted_Ya] #685477
05/01/10 09:38 PM
05/01/10 09:38 PM
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Dougsmopars Offline OP
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Lunati 513/533 Initial is happest at 20 degree's yes new valley pan i never reuse a gasket. I think the problem is the pump. easy change to find out.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Dougsmopars] #685478
05/02/10 12:37 PM
05/02/10 12:37 PM
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Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:

Lunati 513/533 Initial is happest at 20 degree's yes new valley pan i never reuse a gasket. I think the problem is the pump. easy change to find out.




ALSO! Before bolting the new pump on, determine the impeller-to-housing clearance. There have been reports of interference and/or excessive clearance with some combinations.
I would think the most effective is for the impeller to be as close as possible to the housing, w/o interference.

As stated by another poster, the design of the 440source impeller does not look like it would flow well.
Report back with your results!

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #685479
05/02/10 01:26 PM
05/02/10 01:26 PM
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NE Oklahoma
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Von Offline
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IMO, get a Milodon HV pump and be done with it.


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Von] #685480
05/02/10 03:17 PM
05/02/10 03:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 843
Suffolk,VA
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ireland383 Offline
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FWIW I just got back from a nice romp in 95 degree weather with my cat housing and a Napa replacement water pump and car never went above 175 degrees.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Dougsmopars] #685481
05/02/10 04:46 PM
05/02/10 04:46 PM
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LEE, MASS
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TOMRR Offline
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I had the same problem with their stuff went with another pump and housing, 44O Housings are JUNK

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: TOMRR] #685482
05/04/10 09:28 PM
05/04/10 09:28 PM
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Posts: 4,503
NJ
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440challenger Offline
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NJ
Did the pump fix it?

Im having a problem with my dads 440. We are using a 26" champion alum rad, new thermal clutch on 7 blade MP fan. Flushed the block. goes to 215 on the high way. Gets so hot that the fuel boils and car cuts in and out.

I have a 440 source pump and housing on it...
Doesnt puke coolant but just runs super hot!

We took the clutch fan off today and put an HHR elec fan and shroud on and its still 200 degrees on a cool 70 degree night

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