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Re: Torque Converters expained..maybe?
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#684263
05/04/10 03:47 PM
05/04/10 03:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
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Quote:
I'm at a loss here...........I've read the info and can understand the benefits of a stator and the required sprag for its function but nowhere in your info does it explain how a "spragless" stator is created or functions????
All I see is this......
"The major advantage of a "spragless" converter is that it does not have a sprag to malfunction or break. *A bracket or ET Eliminator type race car must repeat, round after round, to win a race and the "spragless" racing converter offers this huge advantage which is needed for this type of racing."
Can you shed some light on this?
Or is the "splashback" during vortex flow just an accepted loss one would forgo to get the benefits of more consistent coupling when the rotary flow is dominant? Another words......there's no sprag at all.
a spragless converter works great on a high hp car maybe. but the ones I have seen that were tried on anything under 900hp slowed them down 
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Re: Torque Converters expained..maybe?
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#684265
05/04/10 05:24 PM
05/04/10 05:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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Quote:
Quote:
a spragless converter works great on a high hp car maybe. but the ones I have seen that were tried on anything under 900hp slowed them down
Ok, that's what I was wondering. It sounds like there's no stator, hence, no sprag. Just like to know what's actually being said........ 
don't go by what I said I am not a converter expert.just what I have seen. maybe Lenny will give his imput if he has time.
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Re: Torque Converters expained..maybe?
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#684266
05/04/10 06:42 PM
05/04/10 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,992
Anoka County, MN
Leigh
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Posts: 5,992
Anoka County, MN
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Ok, that's what I was wondering. It sounds like there's no stator, hence, no sprag. Just like to know what's actually being said........
There is still a stator in a spragless converter, it's spined to the reaction (stator) shaft support just like it's sprag cousin. It' just doesn't free wheel.
There as many proponets as there are opponets in the spragless versus sprag converter internet battle. I suggest letting Lenny report feedback, on what his spragless/sprag customers have seen for et varience.
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Re: Torque Converters expained..maybe?
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#684267
05/05/10 07:52 AM
05/05/10 07:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 176
NC USA
ultimatelenny
OP
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OP
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Posts: 176
NC USA
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Quote:
Quote:
a spragless converter works great on a high hp car maybe. but the ones I have seen that were tried on anything under 900hp slowed them down
Ok, that's what I was wondering. It sounds like there's no stator, hence, no sprag. Just like to know what's actually being said........
Hi Dean, A spragless application is a stator assem. that utilizes a spragless insert, a solid steel slug splined for the stator support splines that keep the stator assem in a fixed position a all times. A sprag or one way clutch stays stationary during the initial acceleration of the engine, deflecting fluid coming out of the turbine against the back of the stator(torque multiplication) until the fluid overcomes the stator and it's directional flow starts the stator turning( on the sprag) in the direction of flow allowing the fluid to fill the pump. I hope this explains it a little more for you. In a spragless application the stator assem. stays in a fixed position the duration never actually running one to one with the rest of the converter, which is what you want to occur, theoretically, for max efficientcy, don't get me wrong, with mods to the stator itself as far as fill modifications and fin design the spragless will fill the pump, just not as efficiently as a "spragged" unit. Therefore you will most always see in all class cars (NHRA Stock, Superstock,Comp elim etc.) or heads up classes where every hundredth counts, you will most always run a sprag type piece. In a lot of bracket or electronic type racing the spragless is very popular as far as being deadly consistent and repeatable as they tend to do exactly and predictably round after round. Spragless units are used alot in very high HP and extreme torque applications where no sprag or diode assem. will last. Time to get making the donuts, but remember there are so many different combos and variations out there, and there are no "one size fits all" converters out there. So whether you prefer sprag or spragless, discuss it in detail with your own converter builder and come up with a piece that will work in your particular combination and your type of racing.
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Re: Torque Converters expained..maybe?
[Re: ultimatelenny]
#684268
05/05/10 12:58 PM
05/05/10 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,943
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,943
Holly/MI
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OK, thanks Lenny.  I was already familiar with the purpose/function of a stator, just wanted to know how you get around not having a sprag. Since I'm just a wanna-be, something like that would never be needed for such an application as mine. Just my opinion, not trying to split hairs or start anything.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: Torque Converters expained..maybe?
[Re: ultimatelenny]
#684271
05/05/10 03:57 PM
05/05/10 03:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
a spragless converter works great on a high hp car maybe. but the ones I have seen that were tried on anything under 900hp slowed them down
Ok, that's what I was wondering. It sounds like there's no stator, hence, no sprag. Just like to know what's actually being said........
Hi Dean, A spragless application is a stator assem. that utilizes a spragless insert, a solid steel slug splined for the stator support splines that keep the stator assem in a fixed position a all times. A sprag or one way clutch stays stationary during the initial acceleration of the engine, deflecting fluid coming out of the turbine against the back of the stator(torque multiplication) until the fluid overcomes the stator and it's directional flow starts the stator turning( on the sprag) in the direction of flow allowing the fluid to fill the pump. I hope this explains it a little more for you. In a spragless application the stator assem. stays in a fixed position the duration never actually running one to one with the rest of the converter, which is what you want to occur, theoretically, for max efficientcy, don't get me wrong, with mods to the stator itself as far as fill modifications and fin design the spragless will fill the pump, just not as efficiently as a "spragged" unit. Therefore you will most always see in all class cars (NHRA Stock, Superstock,Comp elim etc.) or heads up classes where every hundredth counts, you will most always run a sprag type piece. In a lot of bracket or electronic type racing the spragless is very popular as far as being deadly consistent and repeatable as they tend to do exactly and predictably round after round. Spragless units are used alot in very high HP and extreme torque applications where no sprag or diode assem. will last. Time to get making the donuts, but remember there are so many different combos and variations out there, and there are no "one size fits all" converters out there. So whether you prefer sprag or spragless, discuss it in detail with your own converter builder and come up with a piece that will work in your particular combination and your type of racing.
very well said and thanks for the info. would like to see more posts from you on different subjects concerning converters and trannies when you have time
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Re: Torque Converters expained..maybe?
[Re: Quicktree]
#684272
05/05/10 05:47 PM
05/05/10 05:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,095
Idaho
Runner
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,095
Idaho
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
a spragless converter works great on a high hp car maybe. but the ones I have seen that were tried on anything under 900hp slowed them down
Ok, that's what I was wondering. It sounds like there's no stator, hence, no sprag. Just like to know what's actually being said........
Hi Dean, A spragless application is a stator assem. that utilizes a spragless insert, a solid steel slug splined for the stator support splines that keep the stator assem in a fixed position a all times. A sprag or one way clutch stays stationary during the initial acceleration of the engine, deflecting fluid coming out of the turbine against the back of the stator(torque multiplication) until the fluid overcomes the stator and it's directional flow starts the stator turning( on the sprag) in the direction of flow allowing the fluid to fill the pump. I hope this explains it a little more for you. In a spragless application the stator assem. stays in a fixed position the duration never actually running one to one with the rest of the converter, which is what you want to occur, theoretically, for max efficientcy, don't get me wrong, with mods to the stator itself as far as fill modifications and fin design the spragless will fill the pump, just not as efficiently as a "spragged" unit. Therefore you will most always see in all class cars (NHRA Stock, Superstock,Comp elim etc.) or heads up classes where every hundredth counts, you will most always run a sprag type piece. In a lot of bracket or electronic type racing the spragless is very popular as far as being deadly consistent and repeatable as they tend to do exactly and predictably round after round. Spragless units are used alot in very high HP and extreme torque applications where no sprag or diode assem. will last. Time to get making the donuts, but remember there are so many different combos and variations out there, and there are no "one size fits all" converters out there. So whether you prefer sprag or spragless, discuss it in detail with your own converter builder and come up with a piece that will work in your particular combination and your type of racing.
very well said and thanks for the info. would like to see more posts from you on different subjects concerning converters and trannies when you have time
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