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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: Streetwize]
#679036
04/26/10 10:34 PM
04/26/10 10:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
8secDart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
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Quote:
Speaking as a 30 year Industrial Design engineer and construction Manager on 4 continents and have taught classes on NEC CLASS I and CLASS II (explosive gases and Dusts respectively). I've designed safety systems to pump and react Ethylene and propylene oxide I can tell you that although risks can almost never be eliminated, but they certainly can be mitigated (reduced to very low probabilities). I hear guys say Sh^^ happens but that won't scour if someone nest to you doesn't know the risks screws up (or just gets careless) and mis-handles a potentially explosive or any high potential energy device. A nitrous bottle (for example) could fly out of your hand and hit someone's wife...or heaven forbid a child. In industry we make certain that people are adequately safety trained for the environment they work in. You can work in a field 50 years and you still may not have adequate safewty knowledge of the potential hazards if it never happened to you....sad but true. Guys like Monte obviously know the dangers and they respect them...unfortunately a lot of guys in the pits on any given week-end do not. But Freak accidents can almost always be avoided by properly trained persons, the best electricians treat every wire like it is hot...even when they know they cut they power off themselves. Cowboys and things that go boom or bang never make for a good combination.
Industrial valves often have additional double block interlocks (two hands to open/set/position indicators, pins, etc) and other safety features installed so inadvertant accidents are far less likely to happen. But that's typically only required when you're dealing with darwin award candidates....Qualified people can rely on training but unfortunately just about any yahoo with a credit card can buy some really dangerous stuff...and park next to you. If not in the pits maybe in an RV park with a 20 dollar propane tank (hey y'all, watch this!).
Solutions don't have to be expensive and be bogged down in regulations either, guys can police themselves if the right people step up and say this can't be allowed to happen again....make some easy to enforce solutions like....don't 'think' (ASSume) the bottle is empty...just always handle,treat and store it and RESPECT IT LIKE IT WAS FULLY CHARGED REGARDLESS. Just like If you ride a motorcycle, always ride as though you are invisible and therefore nothing anyone else does will ever suprise you. Assume the danger is always present, train yourself to think this way as second nature and you'll never be suprised...or worst case you'll instictively know how to react. Training and just some basic safety sense is almost always the key to keeping yourself AND OTHERS safe. A guy in Monte's position can really stand up and be heard.
You lost me after the second sentance.LOL.Once again NO way to train for something like this.People say this is a family sport,but one most know what can happen.That means to a wife or kid.Sad but true.
Now when are we going to spray the Rocky?
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: rickstershemi]
#679037
04/26/10 10:45 PM
04/26/10 10:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,926
Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,926
Akron, Ohio
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Rickster, I fully agree. I remembered in the garage what the original post was about and ran in to delete my post. This is not a time to fall off topic and I apologize. That is also the original reason I shot my stupid mouth off in the first place, because I feel horrible that someone has lost their life over this.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: Quicktree]
#679038
04/26/10 11:06 PM
04/26/10 11:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,093
Long Beach, CA
Mike Swann
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,093
Long Beach, CA
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Ball valves are 1/4 turn valves and a 1/2 inch valve has about a 0.400 inch diameter through hole.
This is the NX high flow type that been around for about 6 years.
With Monty's statement, the guy could have tripped, fell on the valve and died of a giant embolism.
8.30's @3400 lbs
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: ProSport]
#679039
04/26/10 11:13 PM
04/26/10 11:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,992
Anoka County, MN
Leigh
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,992
Anoka County, MN
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Let's see. I go racing, adhere all the mandated safety rules of my class, and someone has this type of incident in the pit next to me, and kills my kid. Who in their right mind can rationalze this? Monte and 8sec. You are both wrong. You are rationalizing this, because you both have a $$ stake in n2O. Bob, don't fret, you are right. I probably should delete this, but oh well. Let the haters chime in. The fact that seasoned n2O users have had incidents, speaks for itself. I have been racing 30 years, and never had an explosion in my or any pit near me. The n2o racers should pay up front for insurance, and be in a section by themselves. 
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: Leigh]
#679043
04/27/10 08:09 AM
04/27/10 08:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,892
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,892
Weddington, N.C.
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Lenny,
I love ya man but I know you can train and should train to become safer for anything that presents a risk....if you have the same mind set and care for carrying an empty bottle as you did for a full aren't you instinctively going to be safer....safety is really more common sense but it needs to be practiced...all I'm saying is if you treat the gun like its loaded even if it's not nothing will 'suprise' you.....how many people a year get killed by what they were sure were "unloaded" guns?...it's not hard to do if you put your mind to being safe.
Mikes death is very sad...the best way to honor his memory is to (at least) become more aware of the dangers.
I totally agree that you can't Eliminate risk....but with safe practices you can reduce a TON of near misses (that never get reported) which overall reduce the NUMBER of deaths and serious injury....that's not opinion, that's fact.
Last edited by Streetwize; 04/27/10 08:13 AM.
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#679044
04/27/10 09:07 AM
04/27/10 09:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Yeah I'm fully aware of high pressure bottles and what
they can/will do.... I just wasnt sure how the gas
escaped at that rate if the valve or bottle didnt fail,
are those bottles a 1/4 or 1/2 turn for full open?
I don't think that quarter or half turn to open ball valves should be allowed in drag racing. It's far too easy for accident to happen with these valves over the knob style twist open variety. Accidents can and will happen and some cannot be prevented but like Wise said measures can be taken to mitigate these serious accidents. I was about 300 feet from the guys pit at Famoso when his bottle went for a ride. It was scary and that team was damned lucky no one was hurt or killed. There are valves better suited for safety and my guess is that soon they will be mandated.
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: BobR]
#679045
04/27/10 09:12 AM
04/27/10 09:12 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Yeah I'm fully aware of high pressure bottles and what
they can/will do.... I just wasnt sure how the gas
escaped at that rate if the valve or bottle didnt fail,
are those bottles a 1/4 or 1/2 turn for full open?
I don't think that quarter or half turn to open ball valves should be allowed in drag racing. It's far too easy for accident to happen with these valves over the knob style twist open variety.
What about using a plug or cap to insure it won't discharge if the handle is bumped. 
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: Challenger 1]
#679046
04/27/10 09:14 AM
04/27/10 09:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah I'm fully aware of high pressure bottles and what
they can/will do.... I just wasnt sure how the gas
escaped at that rate if the valve or bottle didnt fail,
are those bottles a 1/4 or 1/2 turn for full open?
I don't think that quarter or half turn to open ball valves should be allowed in drag racing. It's far too easy for accident to happen with these valves over the knob style twist open variety.
What about using a plug or cap to insure it won't discharge if the handle is bumped.
Yes. If the cap is used it will. Trouble is that this step will be forgotten at times.
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: Leigh]
#679047
04/27/10 09:41 AM
04/27/10 09:41 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
#679048
04/27/10 04:45 PM
04/27/10 04:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Maybe the "haters" should stay away from restuarants and about any other place as well. When that minimum wage teenager, that has no idea what it can do, drops that C02 tank she is changing and it takes off and kills somebody, we will see what will happen then. It's all about "lets outlaw this or that" when something happens at the track, but some of these idiots don't realize they are in close proximity to the same type things everyday of their lives. A pressurized cylinder is a pressurized cylinder, whether it is nitrous, oxygen, argon, C02, whatever. It gets loose, it will hurt somebody.
Monte
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#679049
04/27/10 05:36 PM
04/27/10 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Do nitrous bottles have a guard/ carrying handle on them like a propane tank does(now days) I know my old bottle in the shop does not have any type of guard making it easy to break the valve off if bumped hard enough.... I dont know if they do now days or not
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#679051
04/27/10 08:10 PM
04/27/10 08:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Maybe the "haters" should stay away from restuarants and about any other place as well. When that minimum wage teenager, that has no idea what it can do, drops that C02 tank she is changing and it takes off and kills somebody, we will see what will happen then. It's all about "lets outlaw this or that" when something happens at the track, but some of these idiots don't realize they are in close proximity to the same type things everyday of their lives. A pressurized cylinder is a pressurized cylinder, whether it is nitrous, oxygen, argon, C02, whatever. It gets loose, it will hurt somebody.
Monte
Monte,
How do you personally feel about the 1/4 turn valves? When we ran nitrous we didn't use them-not because we had any fear but only because the other kind is what we happen to have. Now, I would choose the twist open style for safety's sake.
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: Leigh]
#679052
04/27/10 09:21 PM
04/27/10 09:21 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: Mike Walker killed at SGMP
[Re: BobR]
#679054
04/27/10 09:32 PM
04/27/10 09:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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If you don't have anything productive to say just stay the hell out of this thread.
I know what you mean, Monte, talking about a kid carrying a C02 bottle but they are made where the valve is protected. But, I get your point and don't dispute it.
I know some freinds who saw a stud from a Top Fuel Car go through a fans head in the stands. Drag Racing and all motorsports have their danger. Get hit in the head with a baseball, this too can be deadly but people take their kids to games all the time.
When I ran nitrous I hated the way some people let their kids roam through my trailer full of fuel and nitrous. Some parents toating cigarettes around racing fuel. I kept a cap on my bottles just because I was too cheap to risk loosing precious nitrous and found they also protect the threads. I was offered some of those valves with the 1/4 turn ball valve and thought man that might be cool. Then saw one turn over and tip the valve blowing a charcoal grill over and making some excitement and decided it wasn't for me.
When you come to a dragstrip you are allowed a priviledge of entering the pits. Like all priviledges they require responsibilities. You bottle haters what happens when you are in the pits pedal tuning your junk. Wahhh Wahhh Wahhhhhhhhhhh and a belt, bolt, pully, harmonic balancer or valve gear comes flying into your neighbors pit. I have seen all of this happen. Maybe all those guys who can't tune their junk at home should be pitted together. Part of being a parent is teaching your kids and wives how to be safe at the dragstrip.
I have a freind that used to insist on bringing his wife and little seven year old girl to the starting line and would get pissed if I didn't get them arm bands. You just can't help stupid. No matter how many mufflers we saw get thrown by a spinning tire and almost hurt someone or the many chunks of rubber and rocks they kept doing it.
Here it is Simpleton. A nitrous bottle in the pit next to you is the least of your worries at a Drag Strip. This like any of the million things that can take humans out of this world happened. Like Monte said FREAK ACCIDENT. Where there some added risk why sure there are in any pit next to any car. DEAL WITH IT OR STAY HOME IN YOUR BOX.
LEON
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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