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Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: 69fishes] #677420
04/22/10 10:20 PM
04/22/10 10:20 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Year One sells a OEM looking voltage regulator that has electronic internals for $36.
That may help, but your starting problem is probably bad battery cables or grounds. You could also try the diode trick across the ballast resistor.

Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: 451Mopar] #677421
04/22/10 10:32 PM
04/22/10 10:32 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Someone here in the parts for sale section sells on oe appearing one w a black case and electronic internals for $25 to your door and I understand the some regs can handle more current??and not needed in your app here but I understand you can replace the grounded brush on one of the 69 earlier alts w a insulated brush holder from a 70 up alt to make an isolated field (later type) alt if you ever wanted to use an an earlier alt w a later type 70 up flat VR.


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Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: 451Mopar] #677422
04/22/10 10:34 PM
04/22/10 10:34 PM
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Posts: 5,314
Carstairs, Alberta, Canada
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Quote:

Year One sells a OEM looking voltage regulator that has electronic internals for $36.
That may help, but your starting problem is probably bad battery cables or grounds. You could also try the diode trick across the ballast resistor.




I think Napa sells one too. It's not that complicated.

The "dual field" thing is a misunderstood myth.

I used to sell the FBO conversion regulators, but you can't get them anymore.

13.5 constant seems like a wierd plan to me, when a stocker is quite constant, and usually above 14.
In the same breath, lot's of guys have runt he constant regulators without issue.

Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: dave571] #677423
04/22/10 10:37 PM
04/22/10 10:37 PM
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Upper Midwest
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As I stated on an earier post teh dual field thing is misunderstood and they both have dual fields burt the early alternator has one grounded internally. To use a later (70) up alternator with the older style regulator is to ground one of the field terminals either to the case or with a short jumper to any good ground.

Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: MoparforLife] #677424
04/22/10 10:46 PM
04/22/10 10:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,314
Carstairs, Alberta, Canada
dave571 Offline
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If we are being picky, Really, both only have one field.

An electro magnetic field is like anything else elctrical. It needs power, and ground.

On the old ones, the power is regulated, and the ground is constant through the case of the alternator.

On the newer ones, the power is key on battery voltage, and the ground is regulated through the second wire.

Yes, grounding the second terminal completes the circuit when running a newer alt, with an older style reg.

Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: dave571] #677425
04/22/10 11:03 PM
04/22/10 11:03 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Quote:

If we are being picky, Really, both only have one field.

An electro magnetic field is like anything else elctrical. It needs power, and ground.

On the old ones, the power is regulated, and the ground is constant through the case of the alternator.

On the newer ones, the power is key on battery voltage, and the ground is regulated through the second wire.

Yes, grounding the second terminal completes the circuit when running a newer alt, with an older style reg.






The whole dual field thing just means two wires/connections the the alternator field winding. The older alternators only had one wire/connection because the other was grounded to the alternator case.

Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: 451Mopar] #677426
04/23/10 04:18 AM
04/23/10 04:18 AM
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Niles , Ohio
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With the new elec reg that looks oe you dont need to cut or change wires.My kids has been in for at least 10 years and charges like a new car.The race reg was meant for that application.Not street.If they wanted a constant charge they could have built it that way and probally would be cheaper.Battery only wants so much charge.Thats why the reg shuts down when its charged fully.Unless you only drive a few miles sooner or later it will shorten the battery.I run 1 gauge cables.Ive seen a lot of older cars that have corossion in the cables that you cant see that cause hard cranking.Rocky


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Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: therocks] #677427
04/23/10 05:41 AM
04/23/10 05:41 AM
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Upper Midwest
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Quote:

With the new elec reg that looks oe you dont need to cut or change wires.My kids has been in for at least 10 years and charges like a new car.The race reg was meant for that application.Not street.If they wanted a constant charge they could have built it that way and probally would be cheaper.Battery only wants so much charge.Thats why the reg shuts down when its charged fully.Unless you only drive a few miles sooner or later it will shorten the battery.I run 1 gauge cables.Ive seen a lot of older cars that have corossion in the cables that you cant see that cause hard cranking.Rocky



Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: MoparforLife] #677428
04/23/10 08:42 PM
04/23/10 08:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
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It's a dual field connection, which got shortened to dual field in usage.

Difference between the old and new style regulator boils down to this. The old style regulator switched the voltage to the alternator, turning the charging on and off.

The new style varies the ground and can control the output in a smoother manner.

Temperature compensation was built into the OEM regulators, the MP constant output one does not compensate for temperature, which is the ONLY difference. Might it shorten battery life? Maybe, I ran one for years and my battery lasted for 8 years with one. YMMV.


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They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: therocks] #677429
04/23/10 09:57 PM
04/23/10 09:57 PM
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Carstairs, Alberta, Canada
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Quote:

...Battery only wants so much charge.Thats why the reg shuts down when its charged fully......




Thsi part is bunk.

Every chsrging system maintains a steady voltage while the car is running. 13.5 to 14.5 on most. The battery is fully charged at 12.6 to 12.8. I've seen lots of older cars that charge closer to 14.9, without issue. Obviously, a steady charge isn't the problem.

I don't know why the constant voltage race unit isn't recomended for the street(I wouldn't run one on the street myself, simply because I don't see the point), but I would theorize it is related to the temperature compensation that has been mentioned, and perhaps even a reliability stand point. Specified as a race only piece, it may not have as long of a duty cycle as a oem unit.

Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: dave571] #677430
04/24/10 06:46 AM
04/24/10 06:46 AM
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So now we have the regulator as thermostat. OK fine if you say so. ---- go ahead and use your cnstant, regulator. Electricity is charge does create heat, heat is what damages the system including the battery and alternator. Using a regulator controls this electricla flow.
http://www.autoshop101.com/trainmodules/alternator/alt131.html
The regulator will attempt to maintain a pre-determined charging system voltage level.

When charging system voltage falls below this point, the regulator will increase the field current, thus strengthening the magnetic field, which results in an increase of alternator output.

When charging system voltage raises above this point, the regulator will decrease field current , thus weakening the magnetic field, and results in a decrease of alternator output.
Also - http://www.familycar.com/Classroom/charging.htm
The voltage regulator can be mounted inside or outside of the alternator housing. If the regulator is mounted outside (common on some Ford products) there will be a wiring harness connecting it to the alternator.

The voltage regulator controls the field current applied to the spinning rotor inside the alternator. When there is no current applied to the field, there is no voltage produced from the alternator. When voltage drops below 13.5 volts, the regulator will apply current to the field and the alternator will start charging. When the voltage exceeds 14.5 volts, the regulator will stop supplying voltage to the field and the alternator will stop charging. This is how voltage output from the alternator is regulated. Amperage or current is regulated by the state of charge of the battery. When the battery is weak, the electromotive force (voltage) is not strong enough to hold back the current from the alternator trying to recharge the battery. As the battery reaches a state of full charge, the electromotive force becomes strong enough to oppose the current flow from the alternator, the amperage output from the alternator will drop to close to zero, while the voltage will remain at 13.5 to 14.5. When more electrical power is used, the electromotive force will reduce and alternator amperage will increase. It is extremely important that when alternator efficiency is checked, both voltage and amperage outputs are checked. Each alternator has a rated amperage output depending on the electrical requirements of the vehicle. About the same as hooking up and forgetting a constant, non voltage controlled battery charger of past years. Wouldn't think of doing that - would you?

Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: MoparforLife] #677431
04/24/10 10:12 AM
04/24/10 10:12 AM
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Quote:

So now we have the regulator as thermostat. OK fine if you say so. ---- go ahead and use your cnstant, regulator.





I don't say so, MoPar says so. Period, end of discussion.

Why don't you research battery charging vs. ambient temps and you will UNDERSTAND why temperature compensation is important in a STOCK setup and irrelevant in a race one.

It is also the only difference between the stock regulator and the MP constant voltage one.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: Supercuda] #677432
04/24/10 10:21 AM
04/24/10 10:21 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

Why don't you research battery charging vs. ambient temps and you will UNDERSTAND why temperature compensation is important in a STOCK setup and irrelevant in a race one.
It is also the only difference between the stock regulator and the MP constant voltage one.


you know up until this time where you two guys has this "discussion" I never understood what the constant voltage concept meant but now I'm grasping it. Thanks guys (I'm serious).


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Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: RapidRobert] #677433
04/24/10 01:08 PM
04/24/10 01:08 PM
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There's a very hundred Mopars around here all useing the constant output regulator. Nobody has any complaints. Mine runs better with it more voltage to coil. I use a .8 ohm resistor. My local speed shop has been putting the constant out regulators in every electronic conversion since they came out. I've used them for years. Never had a problem. Never killed a battery. I'll stick with what i know works from my experience not what i read in the lastest issuse of hot rod mag.

Re: voltage regulator for electronic ignition [Re: 69fishes] #677434
04/24/10 01:20 PM
04/24/10 01:20 PM
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Quote:

I have a 1969 Barracuda 340 engine with an electronic ignition and stock voltage regulator. The car is next to impossible to start when cold. The battery has 12.5 volts...




The voltage regulator doesn't do anything until the engine is running. If it's a cold start issue and the battery voltage is sufficient it's either a cranking circuit issue, an ignition output issue, or choke/fuel mixture problem.
Does it crank at normal speed when cold? If not, check/repair/replace cables, connections, battery, or starter.
If the cranking circuit checks out, try a jumper wire from the battery positive terminal to the coil + terminal when cranking. Remove the wire after the engine starts. If this fixes it you need better connections in the ignition circuit, a new ECU, or need to rig up a ballast resistor bypass.

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