Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: tywebb2]
#663930
04/10/10 07:08 AM
04/10/10 07:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
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Az
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Looking at it from the front, ta-da left. Be interested to know where it is at before you make any changes. You should too.
Fastest 300
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: tywebb2]
#663932
04/10/10 08:39 AM
04/10/10 08:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
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Quote:
I have a solid lifter in place. Set lash at zero? I pulled the rockers and the dial indicator is reading directly off of a modified pushrod that I have. That will work....right?
Regarding those offset bushings...how do they install for advance? I read somewhere that the fat part of the bushing goes "up" by my bro-in-law told me the fat part goes to the "left". I am sure I can figure out through trial and error but if anyone here know it will save me a little time.
Thanks
fat to the left to advance and fat to the right to retard.
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Dodgem]
#663933
04/10/10 12:01 PM
04/10/10 12:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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super gas
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super gas
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Well after checking..rechecking..rerechecking.....everything I came up with the following
1st time through:
.050" 59.0 150.0 209.0 104.5* .060" 64.0 145.0 209.0 104.5* .050" 59.0 150.0 209.0 104.5*
I went back and double check TDC on the degree wheel and made a slight tweek.
2nd time through:
.050" 60.0 151.0 211.0 105.5* .060" 65.0 146.0 211.0 105.5* .040" 55.5 155.5 211.0 105.5*
Needless to say I am a little disappointed. I was hoping to see a 108*. Should I ever bother advancing it the few degrees to 102 or 103, or should I just leave it alone? I do not have the water pump or timing chain cover off yet so I have to decide if I want to go any further into it or not.
I am using the 7" mopar degree wheel so I guess there may be a little margin of error because it is so small. The 11" wheel I have won't clear the K-frame down below so I can't use it.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: tywebb2]
#663934
04/10/10 12:15 PM
04/10/10 12:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
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I would really try to get to 102 or 101?? (106 is where they put the dowel pin to come out yours is closer than I have come across) 4 degrees is a worthwhile gain trust me
Last edited by Dodgem; 04/10/10 12:17 PM.
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Dodgem]
#663935
04/10/10 12:30 PM
04/10/10 12:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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super gas
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super gas
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I went back out and gave it a third try. Checked TDC to make sure it was correct and then I checked it at .040", .050", and .060". It came out to 105.5*, 105.5*, and 105.75* so it pretty much confirmed my second run numbers.
I guess I will go work on advancing it.
Dodgem...earlier you said to shot for 103-102. In the last post you mentioned 102-101. Why the change? Was it my initial reading of 105.5*?
One other thing, I don't have a cam card for the 509 cam. The book spec lists the centerline at 108 but you keep mentioning 106? Is 106 the installed center line and if so where did you find this spec?
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: tywebb2]
#663936
04/10/10 12:56 PM
04/10/10 12:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
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cause 4 deg is what I would shoot for but they rarely turn out that way. by the time you drill the hole. Have gear clamped tight! LOL!! and put in a 4 deg dowel pin bushing they are rarely on the money. I really like 102 for your motor but 103 would be cool and 101 fine too!! But a 4 deg advance will really give it a kick in the pants
Last edited by Dodgem; 04/10/10 12:59 PM.
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: tywebb2]
#663937
04/10/10 01:51 PM
04/10/10 01:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
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Quote:
One other thing, I don't have a cam card for the 509 cam. The book spec lists the centerline at 108 but you keep mentioning 106? Is 106 the installed center line and if so where did you find this spec?
That cam has a 108* lobe sep. Mp suggests a 106* intake centerline. With 248* duration @.050 the intake open and close events will be as follows.
For Straight up Intake open ----Intake close
108* IntakeCL-----16*BTDC---------52*ATDC 0* SU.
106* ICL----------18*BTDC---------50*ATDC 2* ADV
104* ICL----------20*BTDC---------48*ATDC 4* ADV
102* ICL----------22*BTDC---------46*ATDC 6* ADV
mike
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Crizila]
#663939
04/10/10 05:28 PM
04/10/10 05:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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super gas
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Oh well...if it doesn't end up making a big difference I will have a project for next winter. Its worth a try...right. I pulled the rest of the front off of the motor and hope to mess around with it some more later tonight. I dropped a *#?:(.,#* bolt down in the oil pan this afternoon so I kind of got side tracked. My wife was standing there the whole time asking me why I was doing this and I really didn't have a good answer. I just told everybody 2 weeks ago that I wasn't going to do a thing to the Cuda this year...just drive it. Now I have the engine laying on my front bench??? I just can't leave anything alone??? What is wrong with me?
I did manage to fish the bolt out of the oil pan...phew.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: tywebb2]
#663940
04/10/10 06:17 PM
04/10/10 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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If I want to advance it 4* then should I start with the bushing stamped with a 4 or a 2?
Edit...Update:
I was going to try to advance it tonight but I ran into a few more questions....sorry.
First, I noticed that the "dots" on the sprockets line up on TDC of the exhaust stroke (starting to come up on the exhaust lobe). At this point, the dot on the cam sprocket is pointing down, the dot on the crank sprocket is pointing up, and the dowel pin is to the right.
If I rotate the engine to TDC on the compression stroke (both lifters are down), the dot on the cam sprocket is facing up, the dot on the crank sprocket is facing up, and the dowel is to the left.
Is this a problem? Should the dots be lined up on the compression stroke, or does it not matter?
Also, I notice the dowel fits into a slot in the cam sprocket, not a hole. Is there a trick to drilling it out properly or do I have to get a different cam sprocket?
Last edited by tywebb2; 04/10/10 07:51 PM.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Dodgem]
#663943
04/10/10 08:27 PM
04/10/10 08:27 PM
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Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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super gas
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Does it matter that the dots line up and the dowel is to the right at TDC of the exhaust stroke? I thought it would be that way when at TDC of the compression stroke?
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: tywebb2]
#663944
04/10/10 09:03 PM
04/10/10 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
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Quote:
Does it matter that the dots line up and the dowel is to the right at TDC of the exhaust stroke? I thought it would be that way when at TDC of the compression stroke?
The Dots line up as you see ATDC between the exhaust and intake stroke, not on the compression stroke as alot believe. Thats why you will see distributers set 180* out on that misconception, Iv done it myself back in the day. mike
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Sport440]
#663945
04/10/10 09:40 PM
04/10/10 09:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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Great...that's where they line up so I guess I'm good to go.
I have the cam gear clamped in my drill press right now and I started drilling a 3/8" hole and it seems to be working well. I just marked the center of the dowel in the slot and did my best to center the bit on the lines. I will pick up a 13/32" drill bit tomorrow morning and punch it through.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: tywebb2]
#663946
04/11/10 01:26 AM
04/11/10 01:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913
Bend,OR USA
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Ty, check the exhaust side also, if the cam is ground on a 108 LSA the exhaust should be retarded toe same amount as the intake is advanced,IE intake in at 105.5 then the exhaust should be in at 111.5. All motors start the intake stroke at the beginning of the number one cylinder rotation, IE the piston starts down on the intake stroke as the exhaust valve closes 4 strokes, intake, compression, power and then exhaust
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#663947
04/11/10 07:32 PM
04/11/10 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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super gas
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super gas
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Well....drilling out the slot didn't work out so good. I was a hair off and by the time I filed it the fit of the bushing was loose. I realized tonight that I have been measuring off of the #1 exhaust lobe all along I double and triple checked everything but that. So all of the numbers I have listed so far are for the #1 exhaust lobe. Sorry for the screw up. I will have to wait for my new timing gear set to come later in the week to get baseline numbers for the intake. I am going to go with a Cloyes Original True Roller. I hope they are good? The chain on my Mopar set had quite a bit of sag in it so I guess it is time to replace it anyway.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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Re: Question about degreeing cam in car
[Re: Bigbeep]
#663949
04/11/10 08:36 PM
04/11/10 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,221 Jarrettsville, MD
tywebb2
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super gas
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I would have liked to get one of the hex adjust sets but they don't make one for a one bolt cam as far as I can tell.
Last edited by tywebb2; 04/11/10 08:39 PM.
'72 440 Cuda 11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
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