and no offense but you have been racing FWD turbo cars... those things hall tail no doubt. but it totally different than a big V8. You really need EFI w/ all that boost, that's a no brainer.

Come on, Yuck, leave it alone, we're trying to do something here. Both sides of the argument have merit. I've had sweet-running carbs, and I've had ones that weren't worth a dead fly.

Have you ever put a WB to your favorite carb to see how good your AF curve is? I can tell you firsthand that a carb can feel smooth and still have a funky AF curve - which means you are missing out on some **below-max** torque. Carbs can give more max HP, but EFI gives you more power under the curve -- and that's what some of us are wanting.

Maybe we'll succeed at this, maybe not, but we're interested in giving it a shot. If you can come with some info to help us, we'd be appreciative, otherwise stop plugging up our thread.

I know Fury, done here. Hope he can get it sorted out. I've seen a bunch of EFI conversions, but most used the harness form the donor vehicle, usually a 1/2 ton Ram. That to me would seem like the best way to go.

Every time I look at this with fresh eyes I get a new idea. I now think the Ford stuff could be put into a Mopar dizzy but it would take a few details to be ironed. This would be the best solution as we then know the Hall sensor is compatible with the EEC-IV, and it makes the distributor into a mechanical/fabrication conversion instead of an electrical one – everybody hates electrical, right? .

The Ford sensor assembly (the black plastic part in the pics above) can be ground down a little to fit closer to teh edge of the Mopar dizzy housing. This allows either diameter of trigger wheel to be able to pass thru it.

The hole in the Ford wheel is the same size as the upper end of a points-dizzy shaft (underneath the lobed cam). The flange that the Ford wheel screws to is the same ID as an electronic or Mag dizzy,

Either wheel would require a collar of some sort to hold it perpendicular to teh shaft (for it is just a thin plate). I have a few ideas, I’ll report back if I have some success. It's might boil down to a person getting 2-3 JY dizzys and a few hardware store items and then putting them in a blender.

Quote:

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That is interesting. Why does it need the one off tooth?

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The one-off tooth tells the ECU where #1 cylinder is.


If we get the dizzy figured out, there are still some hurdles to jump - like the PWM IAC.

ok here are my pics of the wheel painless made and the 98 and up mag distributor.
Don't know if it helps or makes any difference.

I think you might be just as well off if you can cut off the tabs on the tbi rotor, drill out the center of the ford one and then drill holes in the tbi to bolt the two together.
IF you can get the ford guts to fit in the tbi distributer.

new wheel in the distributer


sensor plug


sensor


side view of the wheel and the empty distributer housing.


back of the wheel. Here you can see it was all one piece. no welds or bolt together.


side shot of the wheel


diameter


height

Is that a hall effect sensor out of a 2.2 turbo distributor?

The sensor shown a few pics higher appears to be from a Magnum distributor. It is similar to the sensor from a TBI V8, except teh mounting tabs and connector are different.

Eureka?

I may have gotten it done! Needs to be nailed down, so to speak, and then it needs tested in an EEC-IV system somehow. I think spinning it in a drillpress and hooking an elec meter will suffice. Will need to figure out where all the #1s align (between 5.0 and Mopar) before I tackweld the trigger wheel. Need to do this in a bigblock housing after that.

There is not a lot of clearance for all this, so you’ll need your skills, and there are some subtle details involved too. Unless you have a handful of Ford and Mopar dizzys to sacrifice, read the info below while doing it and think 2-3 steps ahead -- because I am typing what I remember, a full 5 days after doing it.

I highly recommend using a remote-mount TFI distributor for this retrofit. Ford’s TFI was notorious for having heat-related issues with the TFI module (it’s the gray plastic thing that mounts to the side of a Ford dizzy and hooks into the brown part in the pics below). Module gets hot, ignition dies, then car starts up when it cools off – pretty easy to diagnose when you know what to look for, but let’s try to avoid it instead. The module requires heat-sink compound between it and the dizzy housing, and if omitted the TFI can overheat. Ford started remote-mounting the TFI on T-birds, trucks and some others around the early 90s, and the brown component is moved into the remote-mount setup also, so wires are all that must exit our dizzy in that case. More info: http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/remote_tfi.htm

Some of the tips to success:
To re-cap, the Ford wheel is a larger diameter than the Mopar wheel, and the Ford dizzy is larger diameter also. Grind some of the sensor so that it can be shoved closer to the dizzy housing. Grind some of its mounting pins off also, then drill them for mounting screws. Feed the sensor’s connector thru the slot on the side of the dizzy. (I don’t fully know where this housing came from, the slot is for a vacuum pot, perhaps TBI and Mag dizzies may not have this slot?)

I am undecided on whether the shaft collar should be cross-pinned to the dizzy shaft. It will grip the shaft pretty well and I doubt it would ever creep out of alignment due to the low mass of the trigger wheel, but things would get ugly with the fuel timing if it ever did. I don’t know if it could cause engine damage - the ignition timing is controlled by the EEC based on the wheel, but it can only deliver to the sparkplugs based on the rotor, which is fixed to the shaft by a tab, so I don’t think it can deliver spark to the wrong cylinder at a wrong-enough time to cause damage. Regardless, it would be a PITA to diagnose if it started to creep.

Grind some of the sensor ‘reflector’ down to get it to fit better. Grind pins / drill mounting holes.


I held the sensor in place based on the wheel location so that gaps between the wheel and sensor would be correct, then drilled one mounting hole. Snugged that screw in place, the re-aligned and drilled the 2nd hole. Held the wheel to the shaft collar and rotated the housing. Felt some rubbing, so I wallowed one of the holes slightly, re-adjusted the sensor, and it was perfect.


Here the shaft is pushed up as normal so that you can see under the shaft collar. The shaft collar must be high enough for the bottom of the wheel to clear the sensor, but low enough that the dizzycap rotor can bottom out on the shaft (remember that we still have to preserve the rotor/cap geometry!). Do not sink the wheel so low that it can read the top part of the wheel, which does not have window breaks in it. Note that the sensor is not centered, this is one of the tricks to making the Ford sensor fit.


A little grinding to get the serrated-flange locknut to fit.


Trigger wheel is just a little above the housing base. Encyclopedia Brown-types will notice that the wheel in these pics is gold-colored, unlike the prior Ford wheel I pictured, which is a dark color. This particular wheel was from a V-6 Ford, and was sacrificed for this latest experiment. The correct wheel still needs to be tack-welded to the shaft collar.

so I think you forgot a couple of things.
What shaft did you use?
Where did you get the collar?

Did you have to open up the inside of the ford wheel? or let it go?

Why did you decide not to use the mopar wheel chopped up a little?

Do the sensors provide the same output?

Just wondering.

As for pining the collar, it looks like there is a gap to tighten it to the shaft? But yes I think a pin would be better.

The housing for my mag does not have any slots or holes. only a notch for the sensor wiring to come out.

As for lining up number 1 cylinder, I think it actually matters more the relation to the rotor to that number 1 slot.
So where it point to in the ford vs where it points to in the mopar.
Since it would be adjustible based on that relationship not where 1 is.

the only reason I mention the mopar sensor and wheel again, is that it seems to be an easier way to go. no welding, just hacking.

Which does lead to quesion, can you re angle that ford sensor so it lines up with the mopar wheel?

Less fabrication then. And then all you have to do is figure out which fin to cut on the mopar wheel.

I fully agree that the Mopar wheel/sensor is a simpler option if the sensor is still robust with 12v going thru it. Trimming one tooth on the wheel would be simple for anyone to do after the pattern is documented.

I haven't yet found info on what the 3 pins are, and the schematics I found from a FSM just show circuit #s, colors, etc - but no functionality for the wires. The Maggie colors don't match the TBI colors, either. And aside from all that, you guys all would need to get the TBI trigger wheel, for the Maggie wheel is a '1-tooth' thing as shown somewhere higher in this thread.

If anyone can provide me info on the wires, I'll try going a step further based on a Mopar sensor.

I think you misunderstood.
Now that you have the FORD sensor mounted in the mopar distributer.

Could you mount it so that it works with the smaller diameter mopar wheel?

That way you don't have to figure out how to mount the ford wheel.

Yeah, I did misunderstand.
I'd have to remount the sensor as the difference in wheel diameter exceeds the available slot in the sensor. I'd also have to mod the #1 tooth first, and then make sure that the sensor is mounted in a new spot based on that #1.

I found some info on the Mag sensor but not on the TBI, but 2 of 3 wire colors match between them. The Mag is fed 8 volts according to the info I found (not teh standard 5 or 12 ). I think I'll apply the Mag info to the TBI Hall and see how it reacts, then compare it to the Ford stuff. Probably can't get to that until next week though.

For all teh responders and interested folks, I made a poll in this thread:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...vc=#Post5942590
Please hit the poll when you get a chance.


I'm curious who all the players are here, what we'll be installing them on, etc -- because we'll have fab, installation & tuning issues to sort out after the dizzy is solved.

And to clarify - let's continue this thread!

I did a little more research over the weekend:

The dizzy housings seem to be the same overall height:
I compared an LA TBI and an RB (so presumably LA, Maggie and B are the same also). Every other bare/unknown housing I have was also the same height.

The housings differ by:
1. if they have a slot for vacuum advance (all pre-LeanBurn carb'd cars),
2. no slot at all (LeanBurn cars and newer) or,
3. mounting ears for the screw-down dizzycap (Maggie).

The shafts differ by: the length down into the engine, and then the shaft up top (whether for points, VR sensor, TBI, or Mag). The points dizzys IMHO should be avoided, they look to be more difficult to convert (they have a 2-piece upper shaft - the cam lobe is a separate piece and it holds the rotor, and the trigger wheel needs to mount where the cam is).

Caps/rotors differ by:
The LeanBurn-older, the TBI, and the Maggie all use different rotors and/or cap combinations, so planning is required to mix-match the housings, shafts and upper parts.

End result:
It seems any engine, from A, LA, B or RB, could have a dizzy converted to the 5.0 TFI setup with the right combination of donor parts (Ford guts, Mopar housing of your choice, and shaft to match your engine).

Choose the shaft based on your engine size, then get the rotor that fits the top of the shaft, then the cap that mates with the rotor, then the dizzy housing that mates to the cap. Whether you seal off the vacuum slot or get a slot-less housing is a matter of preference.

So, it looks like you got the distributor figured out

Up above you mentioned something about the IAC valve? I was thinking that'd be a pretty straightforward part of the swap

Since it mounts directly to the throttle body, either get an elbow adapter like shown in the very first link, or come up with another way to mount it to the intake.

Either way, the 'hard' part will be running the new throttle cable, and for us with automatics, the Throttle Pressure Cable (or kickdown cable )

Or is there something else I'm missing?