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Re: Another heated pinion angle debate!!!!!
[Re: maximum entropy]
#643814
03/21/10 02:09 PM
03/21/10 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
what's a heated pinion angle? 
Thats when you use a torch to change the angle... LOL
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Re: Another heated pinion angle debate!!!!!
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#643817
03/21/10 02:19 PM
03/21/10 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
This is how I define those terms:
Pinion angle: Relationship between the pinion centerline and the transmission centerline.
Operating angle: Slope of the driveshaft.
Here's the problem with that definition, IMO....
Can you set the pinion angle in a vehicle with a two piece driveshaft?
Can you set the pinion angle in a 4x4, front or rear differential?
How??
(C'mon Quicktree....  )
we drag race and work on drag cars not 4 wheel drives and 2 piece drive shaft equipped vehicles. go find you a 4x4 or bus forum I am sure they can tell you how they do it. either that or ask sixpackgut
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Re: Another heated pinion angle debate!!!!!
[Re: Quicktree]
#643818
03/21/10 02:24 PM
03/21/10 02:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
emarine01
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This is how I define those terms:
Pinion angle: Relationship between the pinion centerline and the transmission centerline.
Operating angle: Slope of the driveshaft.
Here's the problem with that definition, IMO....
Can you set the pinion angle in a vehicle with a two piece driveshaft?
Can you set the pinion angle in a 4x4, front or rear differential?
How??
(C'mon Quicktree.... )
we drag race and work on drag cars not 4 wheel drives and 2 piece drive shaft equipped vehicles. go find you a 4x4 or bus forum I am sure they can tell you how they do it. either that or ask sixpackgut
Hummm.... Can you say constant velocity joint 
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Re: Another heated pinion angle debate!!!!!
[Re: Quicktree]
#643819
03/21/10 02:30 PM
03/21/10 02:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,480
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,480
Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This is how I define those terms:
Pinion angle: Relationship between the pinion centerline and the transmission centerline.
Operating angle: Slope of the driveshaft.
Here's the problem with that definition, IMO....
Can you set the pinion angle in a vehicle with a two piece driveshaft?
Can you set the pinion angle in a 4x4, front or rear differential?
How??
(C'mon Quicktree.... )
we drag race and work on drag cars not 4 wheel drives and 2 piece drive shaft equipped vehicles. go find you a 4x4 or bus forum I am sure they can tell you how they do it. either that or ask sixpackgut
4x4 guys figure THEIR pinion angles are JUST AS IMPORTANT to their drivelines as you figure pinion angles are to your cars.
If you need to dismiss the actual definition when it comes to certain vehicles then so be it, but unless YOUR version of what a pinion angle's TRUE definition is can be used to set up a race car, a 4x4, a street car, or a 1978 Dodge 2wd pickup with a two piece driveshaft.... well, it probably means you should redefine what YOUR definition is, don't ya think?
I have NOOOOO doubt what you do to set up your pinion angle will work, and it most likely will be exactly what I do to set up MY pinion angle, it's your DEFINITION of pinion angle that has me scratching my head year after year.
An operating angle being the driveshaft slope doesn't even make sense to me, different driveshaft slopes to different tranny and differential angles, height differences etc would have "operating angles" that were defined by driveshaft slope all over the place.
From the Mark Williams site... once again, and as was posted above in a diagram or two by others....
"Operating angles in a driveshaft are the angles between the pinion, driveshaft and transmission centerlines."
That's the definition I go by.
It can be used for a street car, a race car, a 4x4, a bus, whatever, and it works. Once set the PINION ANGLE can THEN be achieved.
Left two columns are setting up the OPERATING angle, and then and only then is the pinion angle set. The right column is the PINION ANGLE, which is set AFTER the operating angle is set....
 
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: Another heated pinion angle debate!!!!!
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#643822
03/21/10 02:42 PM
03/21/10 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
you don't have to worry about what you call it. you will never make it to the track to find out
This summer I'll be there.
I'll have an English cap and some Grey Poupon, but I'll be breaking parts with ya!
And you have to admit... you ALMOST hit my 6.66 prediction....
we ran 6.57 last week
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Re: Another heated pinion angle debate!!!!!
[Re: emarine01]
#643828
03/24/10 04:54 PM
03/24/10 04:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Alright...bumping this one back to the top instead of creating a new thread!
operating angle--the angle between the drive shaft to transmission and drive shaft to pinion, yes?
so, I want to set my operating angle first, THEN set my pinion angle?
or should I totally ignore operating angle and just make sure trans and pinion are parallel?
what is the preferred operating angle? isn't there a number that is preferred so that it promotes the needle bearings to rotate?
I can set this by shimming the trans shaft up or down, right?
THEN, once I have the operating angle, I set the pinion angle to be parallel to the transmission? or I set it to be 4-5 degrees nose down from the transmission?
WHY IS THIS SO CONFUSING?!?! I've read several times that you want to set the pinion to be parallel to the trans, THEN rotate the pinion down 4-5 degrees...WHY!? THEN IT'S NOT PARALLEL!
I realize axle wrap under acceleration will bring it back into being parallel, but I'm trying to chase down my vibration that is constant at certain speeds. it vibrates under acceleration, cruising, AND deceleration.
one place I read that if it vibrates on acceleration, to rotate it pinion down, and if it vibrates on deceleration, to rotate it pinion up.
what about when it always vibrates?
with the truck on jack stands, my transmission center line is about 2 degrees off from my pinion center line, so my angles definitely need adjustment...but do I set the pinion to be parallel to the trans NOW, or do I set it to be 4-5 degrees nose down from the trans? if I go nose down, won't that make my truck vibrate when cruising under light load and when slowing down?
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Another heated pinion angle debate!!!!!
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#643831
03/24/10 06:04 PM
03/24/10 06:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
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you turn the driveshaft 180 and see if it still vibrates.
nope. hadn't done that. Hadn't thought about it. I've heard that before but never understood why.
how does turning it affect the vibration?
it changes the weight if there is any to change.
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Re: Another heated pinion angle debate!!!!!
[Re: blownzoom440]
#643832
03/24/10 06:20 PM
03/24/10 06:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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what weight? I'm confused...the drive shaft was balanced off the vehicle and is balanced. how does rotating it 180 degrees affect a neutrally balanced shaft? the front slip yoke would rotate 180 degrees with the shaft, and the rear yoke...wasn't in consideration when the shaft was balanced.
**Photobucket sucks**
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