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Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: JohnRR] #63781
09/09/08 11:24 AM
09/09/08 11:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
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organ
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maximum entropy Offline
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organ
i get all my stuff from cope. nice guy, good prices, great service. i think i paid 535.00 for my billet steel drum. i fit 6 clutches in it and probably could have fit 7 if i tried real hard. check his web site. i went with steel because i drive on the street occasionally.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: maximum entropy] #63782
09/09/08 02:01 PM
09/09/08 02:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
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Just a note about the quantity of plates in the front clutch. More is not necessarily better depending on the application. More plates increases the holding power of the unit but can increase the apply time because there is more area that oil has to be squeezed out during application. Generally the six clutch units are for heavy torque units like a diesel truck while the four and five clutch units work best for racing. This is just a generalization and anything can be made to work but using the higher clutch count in a race application may require some adjustments to shift timing.

Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: PC-CHARGER] #63783
09/09/08 02:41 PM
09/09/08 02:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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organ
Quote:

Just a note about the quantity of plates in the front clutch. More is not necessarily better depending on the application. More plates increases the holding power of the unit but can reduce the apply time because there is more area that oil has to be squeezed out during application. Generally the six clutch units are for heavy torque units like a diesel truck while the four and five clutch units work best for racing. This is just a generalization and anything can be made to work but using the higher clutch count in a race application may require some adjustments to shift timing.


granted. and who wants to chase shift timing. i just went with the parts cope recommended, and my tranny has the best two three shift i have ever felt in a torqueflite. instantaneous with no overlap first try! i'm a happy camper, to say the least.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: maximum entropy] #63784
09/09/08 02:50 PM
09/09/08 02:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
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MB,CAN
That's great!!! I just wanted to make it known that more is not always better here and in many other areas.

It's always wise to employ people like CRT or one of many others here or elsewhere to get their advice whenever building up a Torqueflite. They've been there, done that many times and aren't likely to steer you wrong. Parts are too expensive to have to purchase them over and over until you get the right combination.

Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: PC-CHARGER] #63785
09/10/08 12:15 AM
09/10/08 12:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,470
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
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Who here has had some experience with the telflon sealing rings ? The drum that I have does NOT have a bushing/sleeve in there so "wear issues" are a concen for me.

BTW ....who makes those rings? ..... anyone know a source for greem waffle front clutches?

Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: dOc !] #63786
09/10/08 08:57 AM
09/10/08 08:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,812
Portsmouth, VA
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DusterW2 Offline
top fuel
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Portsmouth, VA
tflite_patty on Ebay has listed them.

CRT - https://www.coperacingtrans.com/index.php?cPath=73&osCsid=75779daabdf0a2f974e60b0cc7ba3a2c

A&A Trans: www.aandatrans.com

22502T 727 Teflon Rings (Input & Stator) (1971-Up) $14.95

22502TS 727 Teflon Rings (Stator Only) (1971-Up) $9.95

Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: dOc !] #63787
09/14/08 09:09 PM
09/14/08 09:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
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Are you possibly referring to the Raybestos Blue Plate Specials? These are Blue, not green and should be available from most auto trans shops or one of the sponsors here.

Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: PC-CHARGER] #63788
11/10/09 08:55 PM
11/10/09 08:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,180
upstate western ny
sogtx Offline
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upstate western ny
nice post ! lots info ..

Last edited by sogtx; 11/10/09 11:16 PM.
Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: PC-CHARGER] #63789
11/11/09 10:07 AM
11/11/09 10:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,929
NC
440Jim Offline
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Quote:

To help understand what is needed or not I've tried below to explain the problem of sprag roller clutch failure on a Torqueflite.


Great explaination, I saved it on my computer for future reference.


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: PC-CHARGER] #63790
11/11/09 10:20 AM
11/11/09 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,929
NC
440Jim Offline
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NC
Quote:

Just a note about the quantity of plates in the front clutch.


FWIW, I run 5 frictions in my front clutch, and 165 psi line pressure (Griner valve body). That holds the torque of my 511 just fine. And after years and hundreds of passes, the wear was small.


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: 440Jim] #63791
11/11/09 06:06 PM
11/11/09 06:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
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Thanks Jim. Hopefully it helps everyone understand what they need to do to keep safe.

Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: PC-CHARGER] #63792
05/06/11 11:57 AM
05/06/11 11:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2
Texas
Z
zygotemrsmith Offline
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Texas
Ok, so Chrysler made about how many high performance cars with Torqueflites ? 383s,413s,440s and Hemis - where are all the people that filed lawsuit against Chrysler for exploding grenades in their cars when they took them for a romp. I have no doubt that most of those folks knew nothing about 2nd to 3rd burnout. Where are the recall notices to protect the public from these dangerous transmissions in all high horsepower Chrysler muscle cars. I am going to call some BS factor on a good bit of this.

Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: zygotemrsmith] #63793
05/06/11 12:06 PM
05/06/11 12:06 PM
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Posts: 75,082
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Ok, so Chrysler made about how many high performance cars with Torqueflites ? 383s,413s,440s and Hemis - where are all the people that filed lawsuit against Chrysler for exploding grenades in their cars when they took them for a romp. I have no doubt that most of those folks knew nothing about 2nd to 3rd burnout. Where are the recall notices to protect the public from these dangerous transmissions in all high horsepower Chrysler muscle cars. I am going to call some BS factor on a good bit of this.





Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: zygotemrsmith] #63794
05/06/11 12:26 PM
05/06/11 12:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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organ
Quote:

Ok, so Chrysler made about how many high performance cars with Torqueflites ? 383s,413s,440s and Hemis - where are all the people that filed lawsuit against Chrysler for exploding grenades in their cars when they took them for a romp. I have no doubt that most of those folks knew nothing about 2nd to 3rd burnout. Where are the recall notices to protect the public from these dangerous transmissions in all high horsepower Chrysler muscle cars. I am going to call some BS factor on a good bit of this.



there was a frightening thread here a while back- pictures of front drum failures in race cars. look for it. or go to the track once in a while. there's always SOMEONE who thinks they can push it with a stock drum. when they let go, you don't forget.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: zygotemrsmith] #63795
05/06/11 02:12 PM
05/06/11 02:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,933
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Quote:

Ok, so Chrysler made about how many high performance cars with Torqueflites ? 383s,413s,440s and Hemis - where are all the people that filed lawsuit against Chrysler for exploding grenades in their cars when they took them for a romp.




It's simple, few stock motors can attain the rpm needed to cause drum failure.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: John_Kunkel] #63796
05/06/11 02:26 PM
05/06/11 02:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Quote:

Quote:

Ok, so Chrysler made about how many high performance cars with Torqueflites ? 383s,413s,440s and Hemis - where are all the people that filed lawsuit against Chrysler for exploding grenades in their cars when they took them for a romp.




It's simple, few stock motors can attain the rpm needed to cause drum failure.



This kid on big block dart did it with a 13 second car... It can happen to the stockers as well....


http://www.bigblockdart.com/forum/showth...erent-thread%29

Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: DJVCuda] #63797
05/06/11 02:51 PM
05/06/11 02:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,032
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ok, so Chrysler made about how many high performance cars with Torqueflites ? 383s,413s,440s and Hemis - where are all the people that filed lawsuit against Chrysler for exploding grenades in their cars when they took them for a romp.




It's simple, few stock motors can attain the rpm needed to cause drum failure.



This kid on big block dart did it with a 13 second car... It can happen to the stockers as well....


http://www.bigblockdart.com/forum/showth...erent-thread%29




It doesn't really matter the power level, if the sprag failes even a slant 6 can make the drum spin 12000 RPM. Now getting the sprag to fail with a slant 6 could be a challenge but thats not what were are talking about


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: zygotemrsmith] #63798
05/06/11 04:14 PM
05/06/11 04:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
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These type of explosions are somewhat rare, but if one ever happens to you, believe me you will remember it. There are a number of factors that contribute to this type of failure and even if you disregard the warnings about low gear burnouts with a stock trans in the drive position or the same low gear burnouts with a non LBA valve body, you will likely get away with it for a long time. You may even have a driveline failure, repair the failure without inspecting the transmission and still get away with it. The key is that in order to have a failure of the roller clutch that creates the condition that overspeeds the drum, the little legs that position the wave springs and rollers have to get bent over enough to let them fall out of place plus you have to have enough of them fall out of place so the roller/sprag ceases to hold any longer. This doesn't happen everytime there is a driveline failure or driveline shock and the explosion does not normally occur until after the driveline has been repaired and the car is back on the track. It may happen the first time back or it may take many more burnouts/launches before it fails.

If you choose to ignore the warnings, that's your choice and no one can change that but there are others that would rather not take that chance and take steps to reduce the possibility of this type of failure.

Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: maximum entropy] #63799
05/06/11 09:02 PM
05/06/11 09:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Just a note about the quantity of plates in the front clutch. More is not necessarily better depending on the application. More plates increases the holding power of the unit but can reduce the apply time because there is more area that oil has to be squeezed out during application. Generally the six clutch units are for heavy torque units like a diesel truck while the four and five clutch units work best for racing. This is just a generalization and anything can be made to work but using the higher clutch count in a race application may require some adjustments to shift timing.


granted. and who wants to chase shift timing. i just went with the parts cope recommended, and my tranny has the best two three shift i have ever felt in a torqueflite. instantaneous with no overlap first try! i'm a happy camper, to say the least.


Thats exactly what I did. For my "land Yacht", CRT recommended a steel front drum and 4 clutch discs ). Works great.


Fastest 300
Re: Torqueflite front drums [Re: Crizila] #63800
05/06/11 11:11 PM
05/06/11 11:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2
Texas
Z
zygotemrsmith Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Texas
Yet another take on the poorly engineered Torqueflite failure item -->

On the RARE occation when a Torqueflite blows up in "Drive position/first gear", the sprag is often erroniously faulted. What happens is the sprag puts the pressure of the rollers directly against the transmission housing resulting in a spectacular explosion. I have only seen this in Drag cars with monstrous torque (built Hemi's and 440's) using 14x32" slicks. You won't have anything to worry about with the stock sprag

They are popping out of the woodwork on this

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