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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: moparniac]
#637543
03/12/10 06:26 PM
03/12/10 06:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,441
Mo.
supercomp
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,441
Mo.
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Quote:
my indy are CNC 345s
These look bigger. B1 Orig.
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: supercomp]
#637544
03/12/10 06:39 PM
03/12/10 06:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Quote:
my indy are CNC 345s
These look bigger. B1 Orig.
They both look sweet, but I know which makes more power. I've run stage 6, Indy -1 (only slightly better, but made more power when fully ported) and B1's. There is no comparison in power level.
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: B1Fish540]
#637545
03/12/10 06:56 PM
03/12/10 06:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,015
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,015
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Quote:
the -1s when fully worked over(like GregsDart has done to his) will give the original B1 a run for its money..but in the end the B1 will win. The -1 is a great flowing "max wedge" type head whereas the B1 was designed from a clean sheet of paper with maximum flow in mind.
My heads have 365cc after hogging out for alky. That has to be the practical limit i would think.
On power potential, "no comparison " is baloney. Look at my ET. I expect to better it by .2 this year with new head work and other engine improvements to compliment the increased flow. That is despite going back to a bias ply slick from a radial.
They will never be on par with a B1 in fully ported condition, but can be made to run well for a head strangled with the size port opening they have and other restrictions.
After putting 2.3 intakes in mine, head flow was better than B1 original ported heads up to about .500, landing at 396 cfm at .800 and 400 cfm at .900. The original porting numbers came off flow benches at three separate shops, so trying to say the numbers are bogus ain't gonna fly.
I believe the practical limit on power is going to be performance of 8.50s at 2950 lbs. Should relate to 950 hp or there abouts. The gentleman that ported them, Radar from R & R in Iowa helped develop the B1 so he has his act together. He commented that a good build is about 2.45 hp per cfm of head flow. Hope I get there. That would be 970 hp.
Last edited by gregsdart; 03/12/10 07:06 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: gregsdart]
#637546
03/12/10 07:24 PM
03/12/10 07:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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whats fully ported b1's go ??? i know 8secbird on YB say baloney also as he has been 8.00 on nitrous in a big heavy roadrunner ... single plate i believe 
Last edited by BigBlockDart; 03/12/10 07:25 PM.
Mopar Performance
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: gregsdart]
#637547
03/12/10 07:28 PM
03/12/10 07:28 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Quote:
the -1s when fully worked over(like GregsDart has done to his) will give the original B1 a run for its money..but in the end the B1 will win. The -1 is a great flowing "max wedge" type head whereas the B1 was designed from a clean sheet of paper with maximum flow in mind.
My heads have 365cc after hogging out for alky. That has to be the practical limit i would think.
On power potential, "no comparison " is baloney. Look at my ET. I expect to better it by .2 this year with new head work and other engine improvements to compliment the increased flow. That is despite going back to a bias ply slick from a radial.
They will never be on par with a B1 in fully ported condition, but can be made to run well for a head strangled with the size port opening they have and other restrictions.
After putting 2.3 intakes in mine, head flow was better than B1 original ported heads up to about .500, landing at 396 cfm at .800 and 400 cfm at .900. The original porting numbers came off flow benches at three separate shops, so trying to say the numbers are bogus ain't gonna fly.
I believe the practical limit on power is going to be performance of 8.50s at 2950 lbs. Should relate to 950 hp or there abouts. The gentleman that ported them, Radar from R & R in Iowa helped develop the B1 so he has his act together. He commented that a good build is about 2.45 hp per cfm of head flow. Hope I get there. That would be 970 hp.
This argument could go on for days. And I know who Radar is and his reputation for making power. I also had a nice set of stage 6 heads that worked well, but the cost me alot of money to get there. The Indy -1's were only slightly better than the stage 6's. So my point is, you could spend alot on the -1's and make a decent head out of them, or but a set of B1 originals or M/C's better yet, so why would you want to???? and the number one reasonis, you don't have to deal with Indy. Because talking to the Koffels is a pleasure, and their product is smokin. And if you can get a guy like Radar to port them, even better. JMHO, but PSO's are the next step as I don't want to buy new headers and already scare myself with the current powerplant.
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: moparniac]
#637548
03/12/10 07:32 PM
03/12/10 07:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
B1Fish540
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
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Quote:
whats fully ported b1's go ??? i know 8secbird on YB say baloney also as he has been 8.00 on nitrous in a big heavy roadrunner ... single plate i believe
Thats fine if bird wants to believe that. Maybe there is'nt a great deal of difference with both on nitrous..but races are won by .01s and .001s and, imo, B1s will always have the edge with evrything else equal.
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: camastomcat]
#637550
03/13/10 01:31 AM
03/13/10 01:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
go green
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
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This picture is a perfect example of why you can not just compare port volumes . Case in point look at the port opening verses the deck height. pred vs b1  pred vs eddy  I will take angle of entry more so than just simple port volume that why the pred kills the B1 stuff and why the b1 beats the 440-1 stuff. Having a big volume doesn't matter as much if you have to run uphill and then dump into the chamber.
Last edited by go green; 03/13/10 01:37 AM.
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: B1Fish540]
#637552
03/13/10 09:05 AM
03/13/10 09:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 147
Milledgeville, (central) Georg...
Bighead440
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 147
Milledgeville, (central) Georg...
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great post Go green! pics are worth a 1000 words. The straighter the shot the better! The B1 PSOs address that problem somewhat with much higher and rounder port. So in a nutshell, the higher the port and the longer the valve, the better!
Sounds like the old Brewer head... 
Got some I'm DYING to try someday... 
MAN what a shortblock they'd need...  RB
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: Diablo]
#637556
03/13/10 12:33 PM
03/13/10 12:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Just goes to show The Pred heads and TS heads can not even be put into the same category as any of the other heads just based on the port entry.
There's no argueing about that. They are both very impressive. I wonder if anybody has pics of the PSO's to compare?
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: go green]
#637557
03/13/10 12:44 PM
03/13/10 12:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 61
N. IL
tntmachine
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 61
N. IL
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Quote:
This picture is a perfect example of why you can not just compare port volumes .
Case in point look at the port opening verses the deck height.
pred vs b1
pred vs eddy
I will take angle of entry more so than just simple port volume that why the pred kills the B1 stuff and why the b1 beats the 440-1 stuff.
Having a big volume doesn't matter as much if you have to run uphill and then dump into the chamber.
That's the answer that I was looking for... Thanks
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: camastomcat]
#637558
03/13/10 01:13 PM
03/13/10 01:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
B1Fish540
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
Just goes to show The Pred heads and TS heads can not even be put into the same category as any of the other heads just based on the port entry.
There's no argueing about that. They are both very impressive. I wonder if anybody has pics of the PSO's to compare?
heres the PSO intake...
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: camdog440]
#637560
03/13/10 03:35 PM
03/13/10 03:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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preet thin inbetween ports there. what you use for a gasket?
Mopar Performance
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Re: 440-1 vs B1
[Re: moparniac]
#637562
03/13/10 04:21 PM
03/13/10 04:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,402
State of Corruption
camdog440
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,402
State of Corruption
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Quote:
preet thin inbetween ports there. what you use for a gasket?
That's what I thought too. I'm not sure which gasket I'm using yet... but it shouldn't be too much of a problem  I do have a lot of port matching to do on the new Super Victor intake.
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Nobody else?
