|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: 70duster340]
#624733
02/26/10 04:07 AM
02/26/10 04:07 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,801
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,801
Rio Linda, CA
|
The conversion was done on a '72 B body rally cluster, they unriveted the faceplate on the factory ammeter and installed it on a Sunpro CP7985 voltmeter. Worked pretty slick on that gauge but might not work so well on others.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#624734
02/26/10 08:40 AM
02/26/10 08:40 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756
London, England
Gavin
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756
London, England
|
Quote:
The conversion was done on a '72 B body rally cluster, they unriveted the faceplate on the factory ammeter and installed it on a Sunpro CP7985 voltmeter. Worked pretty slick on that gauge but might not work so well on others.
 a worthwhile article but could be summarised as "find a voltmeter that will fit where the guts of your ammeter currently are" - the value was in the info as to which one they found for the B-Body in question.
If anyone has found a specific voltmeter for other bodystyles, please post away (E-Body standard for me please  )
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: Gavin]
#624735
02/26/10 12:43 PM
02/26/10 12:43 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,527
minnesota
Kirby
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,527
minnesota
|
I tried to use the same voltmeter with an E-bod ammeter, and failed. I was very close, and I think I could do it now, but it required a bit of alteration, and clearance issues, but I think it can be done. Biggest problem was clearance for the needle, and the transistor that's in the front needs to be bent out of the way- this is where I screwed up, and ended up breaking the hair thin wire. I should have taken a soldering iron, and removed the transistor, bent it's connections away from the face, and then resolder it for more clearance. I think it's doable, but I ended up just going with a voltmeter. You have to take a dremel to a couple places on the face too- if I remember correctly- 
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: 70duster340]
#624737
02/26/10 02:10 PM
02/26/10 02:10 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
6T6Cuda
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
|
Quote:
Does anybody know if this conversion is possible on an ammeter from an A-body with a rallye dash? 
While it might be possible, I would guess not w/o a lot of work. Those gauges are an odd size and most "round" ones will not fit in the area and work well..
You know what you could do is use a factory oil/temp/etc... gauge and a voltage divider to lower the voltage to the correct range and use that...
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: 70duster340]
#624741
02/26/10 10:37 PM
02/26/10 10:37 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
6T6Cuda
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
|
Quote:
Can you possibly expand on that, 6T6Cuda?
I am trying to, if possible, keep my ammeter functional. The Painless tech advised that it would be dangerous to continue to use the gauge, as he stated it was 40 year old technology. I want to keep all my gauges in the rallye dash functional, and if possible, convert the ammeter to a voltmeter. I really do not want to have another gauge hanging outside of the dash if at all possible. Unless you or somebody here can suggest another location for the voltmeter?
I am not sure, but it would take some work to use one of the other gauges...
All the "other" gauges are actually just voltage gauges, they measure the voltage coming from the sensor (oil pressure, fuel level, temp). It is theoretically possible to convert one of these gauges to read raw voltage between 8-16 volts.
It would be a matter of using a resistor divider or something else to convert the voltage range the gauge reads (0-5 v, lets say) to 8-16 volts.
It would take some engineering / work to work out the details to make it work... but it MIGHT be possible
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: 6T6Cuda]
#624743
02/26/10 10:52 PM
02/26/10 10:52 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,168
Vancouver, WA
MoparMarq
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,168
Vancouver, WA
|
Quote:
I am not sure, but it would take some work to use one of the other gauges...
All the "other" gauges are actually just voltage gauges, they measure the voltage coming from the sensor (oil pressure, fuel level, temp). It is theoretically possible to convert one of these gauges to read raw voltage between 8-16 volts.
It would be a matter of using a resistor divider or something else to convert the voltage range the gauge reads (0-5 v, lets say) to 8-16 volts.
It would take some engineering / work to work out the details to make it work... but it MIGHT be possible
Although it might be possible, aren't the other gauges damped to some degree by the heating of the resistor wire that constitutes the needle movement? I'm thinking that the slow response time of a gauge like that would make it pretty useless as a voltmeter. Voltmeters are much more useful when you can read instantly when the voltage drops or rises depending on load/alternator output at idle, etc.
Just my $.02.
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: MoparMarq]
#624744
02/26/10 11:39 PM
02/26/10 11:39 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,440
So Cal
Sinitro
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,440
So Cal
|
Quote:
Quote:
I am not sure, but it would take some work to use one of the other gauges...
All the "other" gauges are actually just voltage gauges, they measure the voltage coming from the sensor (oil pressure, fuel level, temp). It is theoretically possible to convert one of these gauges to read raw voltage between 8-16 volts.
It would be a matter of using a resistor divider or something else to convert the voltage range the gauge reads (0-5 v, lets say) to 8-16 volts.
It would take some engineering / work to work out the details to make it work... but it MIGHT be possible
Although it might be possible, aren't the other gauges damped to some degree by the heating of the resistor wire that constitutes the needle movement? I'm thinking that the slow response time of a gauge like that would make it pretty useless as a voltmeter. Voltmeters are much more useful when you can read instantly when the voltage drops or rises depending on load/alternator output at idle, etc.
Just my $.02.
The water temp and oil pressure gauges are simply 5V gauges, so any of these could be used but a dropping resistor will be needed to reduce the 12V to 5V. The rite way to do it would be to change the respective meter artwork to be a voltage scale like 8V to 15V using the fonts of the original gauges..
Sean @ Redline gauges can do this nicely, just remember to tap into a switched 12V line..
Here is the link to Redline..
www.redlinegaugeworks.com
Just my $0.01... 
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: MoparMarq]
#624745
02/26/10 11:42 PM
02/26/10 11:42 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,796
Castlegar, BC, Canada
That AMC Guy
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,796
Castlegar, BC, Canada
|
It's my understanding that they don't sense voltage so much as they actually measure resistance. Don't forget, they are powered by a (more or less) constant 5 volts. The variable factor in their operation is the resistance to ground. Each gauge is calibrated to a specific range of resistance. Essentially, what they are is Ohmmeters.
So, I don't really think you could convert one to measure volts.
Last edited by RamblerMan; 02/26/10 11:42 PM.
Bloody Mary, Full of Vodka, Blessed art thou among cocktails....
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: That AMC Guy]
#624746
02/26/10 11:46 PM
02/26/10 11:46 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,440
So Cal
Sinitro
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,440
So Cal
|
Quote:
It's my understanding that they don't sense voltage so much as they actually measure resistance. Don't forget, they are powered by a (more or less) constant 5 volts. The variable factor in their operation is the resistance to ground. Each gauge is calibrated to a specific range of resistance. Essentially, what they are is Ohmmeters.
So, I don't really think you could convert one to measure volts.
Incorrect..
The gauges are voltmeters, and by changing the resistance revises the amount of swing of the meter by decreasing the incoming voltage...
Just my $0.01..
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: 70duster340]
#624747
02/28/10 08:37 PM
02/28/10 08:37 PM
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
|
New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
|
Quote:
...The Painless tech advised that it would be dangerous to continue to use the gauge, as he stated it was 40 year old technology...
More like 140-year old technology, and a technology that's still used today. It sounds like that "tech" was trying to sell you something. The problem is tired old riveted connections and ammeters that put out a lot more than the 40-60 amps the gauges were designed for. Swapping in a WT or OP gauge could work but getting it to read accurate numbers would be tough. If all you needed to know is whether you were above or below 12-14 volts then it wouldn't be that tough. The gauges are usually about 12-15 ohms while the sending units are about the same at minimum resistance and around 80 ohms at maximum resistance. If I remember right the sending units are around 30 ohms at mid-gauge and if we assume the IVR output is 5 volts then the gauge would see about 1.7volts at mid gauge. At maximum reading the voltage across the gauge would be about 2.5volts and this is then about the maximum you should put on the gauge based on the assumptions above. Now all you have to do is design a voltage divider to generate about 2.5@15 volts and/or 1.7@12.5volts. It looks like 6 or 7:1 will do. Of course some testing will be necessary. I've found the IVR to actually put out over 6 volts effectively in back to back comparison with a solid-state regulator.
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: 70duster340]
#624749
02/28/10 10:58 PM
02/28/10 10:58 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
denfireguy
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
|
Quote:
Can you possibly expand on that, 6T6Cuda?
I am trying to, if possible, keep my ammeter functional. The Painless tech advised that it would be dangerous to continue to use the gauge, as he stated it was 40 year old technology. I want to keep all my gauges in the rallye dash functional, and if possible, convert the ammeter to a voltmeter. I really do not want to have another gauge hanging outside of the dash if at all possible. Unless you or somebody here can suggest another location for the voltmeter?
Since this is a family board, all I can say is Bull. The technology is as old as Ohm's Law but its application is totally current (pun intended). I am sitting near a brand new Generac diesel emergency power back up system. The DC charging is through an AMMETER, there is no voltmeter. Why? According to the factory rep, a voltmeter can only tell you if it reads low, the battery is dead. Nothing else. An ammeter can tell you if the alternator is providing current, how much current is being drawn by the engine and accessories and if the battery is in good shape.
Painless is trying to sell stuff by scaring people. Any wiring system can be dangerous if not maintained. The bulkhead connector is a weak link and needs to be looked at all times. But the technology is sound and still in use in professional if not painless applications.
One other thing to remember, the cop cars and taxis with the high current alternators in the Satellite and Fury series ran the wire from the fusible link through a grommet in the firewall with no connectors to the ammeter, bypassing the bulkhead connector. But they still used the ammeter. They used radios that drew 30 Amps on transmit, more than any modern electronics I know of.
Craig
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango
Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
|
|
|
Re: Mopar Action article
[Re: denfireguy]
#624751
03/01/10 05:04 PM
03/01/10 05:04 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,801
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,801
Rio Linda, CA
|
Quote:
According to the factory rep, a voltmeter can only tell you if it reads low, the battery is dead. Nothing else. An ammeter can tell you if the alternator is providing current, how much current is being drawn by the engine and accessories and if the battery is in good shape.
Why do you need to know how much current is being drawn by the system? A voltmeter will tell you the system voltage, if the system voltage is above the battery's "engine off" voltage the battery is being charged.
Ask that generator tech if their ammeter is a shunt type, the shunt type ammeter doesn't run the full system amperage through the meter, lots different than the factory ones that do.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
|
|
|
|
|
