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Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: rebel] #624117 02/26/10 05:26 PM 02/26/10 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	Uhhhh...can I sprinkle in a little common sense? Anyone ever run a stock'ish gear (3.23), and then put more gear in the car (4.56)? Remember how much quicker the 4.56 gear was?...lol... Also, loose converter with a gear like that will absolutely sucks for drivability on the street... (ever taken off from 2nd or 3rd on accident, it's terrible) So why couldn't you do it? Oh you can, it will just be A LOT slower... My Dad ran his blown small block car from 2nd gear this year (so he could run the Sportsman class). It's heavy, and has ~5200 stall converter. As I remember the car was about 6~7 tenths slow!

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: dizuster] #624118 02/26/10 05:39 PM 02/26/10 05:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 48 Pa W W7_Scamp member
W7_Scamp member W Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 48 Pa	[? Anyone ever run a stock'ish gear (3.23), and then put more gear in the car (4.56)? Remember how much quicker the 4.56 gear was?...lol... Also, loose converter with a gear like that will absolutely sucks for drivability on the street... (ever taken off from 2nd or 3rd on accident, it's terrible) So why couldn't you do it? Oh you can, it will just be A LOT slower... My Dad ran his blown small block car from 2nd gear this year (so he could run the Sportsman class). It's heavy, and has ~5200 stall converter. As I remember the car was about 6~7 tenths slow! I run 3:23 gears in my valiant. Stock 440 shortblock, 509 cam, factory heads 3800 trans specialty's converter (runs great on the street) at the track I shift at 5500 and trap 5300. P.S. If you do a burnout and leave in 2nd on the street it dead hooks. the car runs 11.70's thru the exhaust and is a street car not a race car. I'm trying to convince myself to change gears to 3:91 or 4:10 but I'm afraid I won't hardly pickup. Ryan J went from 3:55 to 3:91 or 4:10 and picked up nothing.

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: W7_Scamp] #624119 02/26/10 05:52 PM 02/26/10 05:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ M maximum entropy master
maximum entropy master M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ	imo, the right converter is key to the whole deal. i've had cars with loose converters and very tall gears, and everytime i put steeper gear in it, i'd end up going back to the freeway gears. the gain was not worth the cost in wear and tear, noise, fuel mileage, et cetera. but i always had the best converters i could afford, and i believe that was why my combos worked. for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: maximum entropy] #624120 02/26/10 06:21 PM 02/26/10 06:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL D Dart451 OP mopar
Dart451 OP mopar D Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL	I was planning on getting the convertor restalled. The glides work with the overall final ratio being similar.

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: Dart451] #624121 02/26/10 07:14 PM 02/26/10 07:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: I already have a trans brake why couldn't i use it? My mistake... I thought you werent using low gear but you are and not using high gear(racing).... sorry

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: maximum entropy] #624122 02/26/10 09:54 PM 02/26/10 09:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs Bob_Coomer master
Bob_Coomer master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs	Quote: Thats what i dont under stand with the OP... neither the the 727 or the PG has is OverDriven in 3rd? Were is the OD you guys keep talking about? They both have a final drive a 1:1 In this case a A518 would be optional.. no, it would not "actually" be overdrive, but the overall ratio would be as if it were overdriven, capice? yer making a very simple concept into something complicated. Im making it complicated LOL... 2.90's a trans brake, and tire with any height at all. how would this be diff that your average everyday race car with a mismatched reared gear set? Sure it will work, sure it will run..why wouldn't it? If its the hos setup we all would be trading in out 4.88's for 3.23 I wasn't trying to be negative, as was just trying to understand what the OP was trying to achieve... still don't know Its all in good fun boys.... (Sling Blade Carl's Voice here) its winter its winter... hmmmm... its still winter. I hate snow [color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color] [color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: Bob_Coomer] #624123 02/26/10 10:07 PM 02/26/10 10:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Im making it complicated LOL... 2.90's a trans brake, and tire with any height at all. how would this be diff that your average everyday race car with a mismatched reared gear set? Sure it will work, sure it will run..why wouldn't it? If its the hos setup we all would be trading in out 4.88's for 3.23 I wasn't trying to be negative, as was just trying to understand what the OP was trying to achieve... still don't know Its all in good fun boys.... (Sling Blade Carl's Voice here) its winter its winter... hmmmm... its still winter. I hate snow Its a street car and doesnt want a steep gear.... but its still a sacrifice... you wouldnt see a RACE car doing it because he would be giving up alot of torque multiplication of the different rear gears

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: MR_P_BODY] #624124 02/27/10 12:19 AM 02/27/10 12:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 8,094 Sunnyvale, CA Jeepmon master
Jeepmon master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 8,094 Sunnyvale, CA	I dont know if I'm hijacking this thread by asking as question... but this topic has caught my interest.. My Duster is a true street car that I race alot.. Currently its 3180 lbs plus driver, 727 reverse, 4.10 gears with 28.0" tires.. I cross the line at 6800 rpm and cruise the freeways at about 3500 rpm... The stall is 3500 and the flash is right around 4400 rpm.. The car will 60' in the 1.6x range and the last variable is the gearing in 1st gear, which I dont know.. My question is this.. What would happen to my 60', 1/4 mile ET and MPH.. and lastly what would the freeway cruising rpm be if I was to convert to a 3.23 or higher gear? 73 Duster 360 stroker http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2594657

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: dizuster] #624125 02/27/10 12:24 AM 02/27/10 12:24 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Uhhhh...can I sprinkle in a little common sense? Anyone ever run a stock'ish gear (3.23), and then put more gear in the car (4.56)? Remember how much quicker the 4.56 gear was?...lol... Sure, it'll peg the butt dyno, and back in the day when everyone had stock converters or a stick car a low gear picked the cars up, but this is 2010 and converters have come a LONG way.......I've done so much gear and converter testing/swapping trying to pick up ET it's crazy, and believe me when I say that with the right converter, gear ratio has very little effect on ET....... Quote: Also, loose converter with a gear like that will absolutely sucks for drivability on the street... (ever taken off from 2nd or 3rd on accident, it's terrible) So why couldn't you do it? Oh you can, it will just be A LOT slower... Again......that's just not the case............ Quote: My question is this.. What would happen to my 60', 1/4 mile ET and MPH.. and lastly what would the freeway cruising rpm be if I was to convert to a 3.23 or higher gear? It depends on how much torque the car makes, but I bet you'd be surprised.......Try it and post your results....... I'm going to make a few different transmission videos and I'll also go into torque converters and stall and flash.........and I will take a car to the track and show how stock, a 3,800, and a 5,000+ stall converters compare, back to back......

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide #624126 02/27/10 01:03 AM 02/27/10 01:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi rowin4 master
rowin4 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi	I think the idea was to run the quarter in first and second gear with the torque flite, just need to figure out what tire size , gear ratio and what torque converter would work for max rpm's at the stripe. It would work out for a street driver, Seems easier to go with a proven combo's for a track car. it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: Jeepmon] #624127 02/27/10 02:46 AM 02/27/10 02:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL D Dart451 OP mopar
Dart451 OP mopar D Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL	Quote: I dont know if I'm hijacking this thread by asking as question... but this topic has caught my interest.. My Duster is a true street car that I race alot.. Currently its 3180 lbs plus driver, 727 reverse, 4.10 gears with 28.0" tires.. I cross the line at 6800 rpm and cruise the freeways at about 3500 rpm... The stall is 3500 and the flash is right around 4400 rpm.. The car will 60' in the 1.6x range and the last variable is the gearing in 1st gear, which I dont know.. My question is this.. What would happen to my 60', 1/4 mile ET and MPH.. and lastly what would the freeway cruising rpm be if I was to convert to a 3.23 or higher gear? at 65 mph with 3.23 you would turn 2520 rpm. The rest of 1/4 mile times would depend on lots of variables and how well your convertor works

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: MR_P_BODY] #624128 02/27/10 02:55 AM 02/27/10 02:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL D Dart451 OP mopar
Dart451 OP mopar D Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL	I understand there would be more drag in the transmission compared to a glide. The torque multiplication would be about the same as a glide. The glide would be a 1.8 first gear x 4.56 rear gear so 1.8x4.56=8.21 torque multiplication the 727 would be 2.45 first gear x 3.23 rear gear so 2.45*3.23=7.9 The pic at top is two differnt examples of how the mph and gears react. I probly should label it better. It would really come down to how well the torque convertor works. A bad convertor can make or break any combo.

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: Dart451] #624129 02/27/10 05:59 PM 02/27/10 05:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	It kind of opens up the 727/PG debate in combo. Many people have had a hard time making low torque or heavy cars work with a PG. However, there are few that say it can be done. I totally agree it's all in the converter. THe problem is, most people don't have the time/patience/money to test converter after converter to get it right...

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: Dart451] #624130 02/27/10 10:53 PM 02/27/10 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC 4 446acuda master
446acuda master 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC	Quote: Was running some numbers around and was wondering why not use the first two gears on a 727 like a glide then third will be overdrive. The 727 1st 2.45 2nd 1.45 so 2.45/1.45=1.69 a glide is 1.76 first to second ratio I understand the extra drag on internal components and needed to get the convertor set up right. [image]https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/5829790-Glidevs727.tif[/image] I don't know a heck of a lot about automatics but I always thought that running a high stall converter below that stall speed for long periods of time makes some major heat but I guess a really big cooler would take care of that. For example, a car with 2.76 rear gear with a 3500 stall converter would be way below 3500 rpm at highway speeds and would put some serious heat into the trans fluid.

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: 446acuda] #624131 02/28/10 12:10 AM 02/28/10 12:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL D Dart451 OP mopar
Dart451 OP mopar D Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL	You can easily cruise under the stall speed. There is not much load on stall at 55 mph.

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: 446acuda] #624132 02/28/10 09:39 PM 02/28/10 09:39 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: I don't know a heck of a lot about automatics but I always thought that running a high stall converter below that stall speed for long periods of time makes some major heat but I guess a really big cooler would take care of that. For example, a car with 2.76 rear gear with a 3500 stall converter would be way below 3500 rpm at highway speeds and would put some serious heat into the trans fluid. Quote: You can easily cruise under the stall speed. There is not much load on stall at 55 mph. Exactly....... The converter only stalls that high at wide open throttle.........so it's not a biggie, unless you've got a cheap converter...... 5836825-BrownSugar5-14-09007.jpg (26 downloads)

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide #624133 03/01/10 09:35 AM 03/01/10 09:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan B1Fish540 master
B1Fish540 master Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan	the only problem i see with this scenario, is most cars running PG are light and over powered. That acomplishes two things, it calms down the launch making the car more consistant and applies the torque more evenly thru-out the 1/4. In your case, you do not have too much TQ/HP to begin with plus your car may not be very light(requiring more TQ multiplication to get it moving). IMHO, you will simply have a slower car, this is a case where the numbers..altho acurate..dont add up in the real world of drag racing.

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: B1Fish540] #624134 03/01/10 12:32 PM 03/01/10 12:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL D Dart451 OP mopar
Dart451 OP mopar D Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 667 IL	I got more hp then my friend that runs a glide and he 60' in the low 1.3 area with more tuning needed. So not worried about being under powered.

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: Dart451] #624135 03/02/10 01:19 AM 03/02/10 01:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama M Monte_Smith master
Monte_Smith master M Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama	Wow...some of you guys are making this difficult. It is simple math. You multiply the trans gear, by the rear gear, for the "theoretical" gear ratio. If the glide has a 1.80 low and a 4.10 rear, do the math, that makes the theoretical gear the same with the 2.45 low of the 727 and install that rear gear. Converter it the same and you should get similar results as the glide in low gear. Obviously second won't be one to one though.........As far as a glide calming a car down and making it more manageable on the line, I totally disagree in most instances, but that is a whole other discussion. Monte

Re: Why not use 727 like a glide [Re: Monte_Smith] #624136 03/02/10 01:35 AM 03/02/10 01:35 AM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 2,864 IN Irun5snd8th master
Irun5snd8th master Joined: May 2004 Posts: 2,864 IN	I would certainly like to hear that discussion. Monte you are well respected so if you think it wont calm the car down on the launch; I want to hear the theory behind that. I know it definitely calmed mine down. AFCO, Rons Fuel Injection sponsored Dodge Challenger Mention Street Lethal Motorsports

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