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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: AndyF]
#62391
12/10/09 12:09 AM
12/10/09 12:09 AM
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HYPER8oSoNic
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For you guys who think that 413's are scrap metal,
explain to me why those 4500+ lb Newports and
300's run in the high to mid twelves all day long.
They are modified of course, but do you get the
concept. TORQUE is what gets you going 90% 0f the
the time. And comparably speaking, the 413 can be made to RUN HARDER. Passenger car, motorhome or
MAX-WEDGE. Does not matter. Careful blueprinting
and attention to the right parts/right application
will make this motor sing. 440's are strong, cheap
and plentiful, plus with a bigger bore, it makes
for a good stroker motor. The development just has
been sort of unfair to the 413, other than the
MAX-WEDGE technology.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: AndyF]
#62392
12/10/09 12:20 AM
12/10/09 12:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,314
Carstairs, Alberta, Canada
dave571
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Quote:
The 413 has the same stroke as the 426 and the 440, it just has a tiny bore size. A 413 isn't going to make anymore torque than a 440 motor given the same camshaft, heads, intake etc.
I can't think of a single good reason to build a 413 motor other than the fact that a person wants one in order to be period correct.
Amen brother. 
As for the 12 second 413 c body car's, I've never run into one myself. Unless we are talking 1/8th mile 
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: AndyF]
#62393
12/10/09 12:25 AM
12/10/09 12:25 AM
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HYPER8oSoNic
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I beg to differ on the torque output of the 413.
The 440 and 413 are fairly close, and you have
to remember that the 413 was "pushing" more steel
and iron than the 440 back then. The 440 was made
because they needed a more tractable, larger mill
than the 413. Which in turn lowered the torque
rpm from 3400-3600 (413) to 3000-3400 (440). With
the exception of the Long-Ram Inducted 413 which
made it's torque at 2700-3000 (approx. 490-500 ft
lbs worth). I would gladly take a good core 413
any day.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: dave571]
#62396
12/10/09 12:36 AM
12/10/09 12:36 AM
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Venture out to an a Chrysler 300 (letter series)
event and you will see a few of them. Most of the owners are trying to keep the dollar value
on these cars at a high level. And I do not blame
them one bit. Without the 413, you couldn't have
the 426 or the 440. In the eighth, it would run
quicker than high 12's. But I understand that this
was before your time.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#62398
12/10/09 12:55 AM
12/10/09 12:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER
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Riverside, Ca
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Nothing wrong with a 413, BUT the market has forgotten it. That said, I'm glad the letter cars exist, they were a milestone, and so was the model T ford, doesn't mean I want a T 4cylinder engine.  Why pound on a dead horse? IF I could buy pistons for the 413 I have lying in my shop now I would have built it But I'm not going to invest $800+ into custom pistons and still net 30 cubes less then a 440 with $300 pistons, and have shrouded valves from the TINY bore  I seriously tried for over a year to FIND pistons for the 413, no luck... It's now donating it's crank to a 446 build. Fire away 
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#62399
12/10/09 12:56 AM
12/10/09 12:56 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,354
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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How often can the 413 take that 62 over punch?
I've never seen one for sale at any price around here. I suppose I would run a good stock one until it needed a rebuild. No reason to waste stuff.
I want my fair share
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: Reggie]
#62402
12/10/09 01:25 AM
12/10/09 01:25 AM
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HYPER8oSoNic
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Quote:
Gee, if the 413 was so great, it's a wonder that Ma Mopar just didn't keep that displacement and forget about the 426, 440. Not taking anything away from the 413 which was good for what it was at the time, but you just can't argue with more cubes. Besides, I think I'll listen to AndyF since he wrote the book.... 
Didn't Bob Dylan write a song called "These Times
Are Changing". Technology caught up with the
413 and the "good intakes" could not fit under the
newer hoodlines. Yes, displacement rules, but not
in ALL cases. Power to weight must be balanced for a happy medium in performance. Still a great
motor. Andy is good but Larry Shepard actually wrote the "manuscript".
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#62404
12/10/09 01:37 AM
12/10/09 01:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Riverside, Ca
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Quote:
Quote:
How often can the 413 take that 62 over punch?
I've never seen one for sale at any price around here. I suppose I would run a good stock one until it needed a rebuild. No reason to waste stuff.
My thoughts exactly.
And mine... the block is getting bolted to a dolly and placed to sleep under the bench, maybe someday pistons will be available and she can regain her place between the fenders again 
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#62406
12/10/09 01:43 AM
12/10/09 01:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
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Quote:
I had my 1960 413 bored to 426 cubes ( I went custom forged but there are pistons available off the shelf for 426 bores), took it no problem and still had walls right around .200 thick on the thrust sides when done.
Scott,
You found 426 pistons with correct pin placement off the shelf that weren't 1000g cast rocks? EGGE has some but for the price..... Pass! I know Gbob had semi custom Ross build but still not cheap (383's with the pin moved.)
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: R70RUNNER]
#62407
12/10/09 01:46 AM
12/10/09 01:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
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Quote:
You found 426 pistons with correct pin placement off the shelf that weren't 1000g cast rocks? EGGE has some but for the price..... Pass!
No I didn't, but then again, I never claimed to 
Bottom line, you can buy standard bore 426 postons off the shelf. If what you find doesn't suit you it's time for customs. BTW, if the sonic checks out thick enough you can bore the 413 even more to get the next size 426 bore as well (426 + .030 etc.).
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Re: Are 413 Engines really all that special?
[Re: R70RUNNER]
#62408
12/10/09 01:48 AM
12/10/09 01:48 AM
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HYPER8oSoNic
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Quote:
Nothing wrong with a 413, BUT the market has forgotten it. That said, I'm glad the letter cars exist, they were a milestone, and so was the model T ford, doesn't mean I want a T 4cylinder engine. Why pound on a dead horse? IF I could buy pistons for the 413 I have lying in my shop now I would have built it But I'm not going to invest $800+ into custom pistons and still net 30 cubes less then a 440 with $300 pistons, and have shrouded valves from the TINY bore I seriously tried for over a year to FIND pistons for the 413, no luck... It's now donating it's crank to a 446 build. Fire away
Thats why you don't need to get those 1500+ dollar
eddy heads or victors. You can stroke a 413 and
gain even more torque and have a great street motor. You can't just rev on it like a 340 or 383
because it isn't the same as one. Power is down
low, so gear up the car accordingly to run well.
Besides you made the first smart move to put the
413 crank into the 440. Chances are the original
440 crank was cast. Now make another smart move and put a 4.15" stroker arm in the 413. Costs
just as much to stroke a 440, no excuses. Beat on
a dead horse? Beat on this one and it will take
you on a wild ride!
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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