|
Re: ethanol
[Re: burdar]
#603725
02/04/10 06:15 PM
02/04/10 06:15 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
|
No actual exp on this one (E85) but E85 (85% alcohol as opposed to E10's 10% alcohol requires carb mods (way larger jets etc) from the much larger VOLUME of alcohol required and can utilize a MUCH higher CR to take advantage of it (the alcohol) and I was considering it at one time when E85 was much cheaper than regular 87 or E10 89 just for the savings but now that 87 regular/89 E10 and E85 are both in the $2 and change per gallon range I lost interest in it and decided to build a quench 318 & try to crack Tambabayflyers 29MPG record  . Burdar I had understood that a properly built E85 setup would have mileage benefits (Is that not the case??)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: ethanol
[Re: moparmojo]
#603727
02/04/10 09:39 PM
02/04/10 09:39 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,962
GA
roadrunninMark
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,962
GA
|
If you have an engine set up correctly to run on ethanol, meaning a lot higher compression ratio, you could actually get way better mileage then a gas motor. I have a book on alcohol that states that VW converted a TDI (diesel) engine to run on alcohol and produced a 22% increase in economy. These TDI motors were getting 50MPH highway on diesel. This is because with the high CR, you can run a small engine and get the same power. You can change the jetting as well, if you want to run a more economical mixture and create less power. There is a lot more to alcohol then the oil company wants you to know. As far as emissions, it has a good amount less then a gas motor. Just watched a show on History Channel tonight, said burning alcohol produces the same amount of CO2 that it takes for the sugar cane plants to deteriorate naturally in the environment, therefore it is considered carbon neutral. You will produce some NOX though, still less then a gas motor. I will be running a 440 based motor on ethanol, that is her in my avatar.
Mojo is correct about Brazil, actually I believe the alcohol is over 50% cheaper then gas there.
Mark
|
|
|
Re: ethanol
[Re: burdar]
#603729
02/05/10 10:57 AM
02/05/10 10:57 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
Rug_Trucker
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
|
OMG there is some bad info on this thread.
10% will make you engine run leaner. Less BTU's in ethanol. It would be a good idea to jet up a little.
It will rot your rubber fuel lines on a carburated car. Get fuel line that is rated for fuel injection. Most Vatazone workers don't know there is a difference. Use the special fuel injection clamps with this line.
Ethanol production uses more fossil fuel to make it than it's worth. Corn production uses way too much water, pesticides, and chemical fertilizer. It is poisoning, and depleting the ground water in Nebraska.
Ethanol emits more green house gases.
This crap is a hand out from the gov to big agri-business. If it wasn't subsidised it would never fly.
Did Tampabayflyer do a E-85 motor? I missed that thread! I know Hotroddave did a mileage 318.
"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
|
|
|
Re: ethanol
[Re: Rug_Trucker]
#603732
02/08/10 03:23 PM
02/08/10 03:23 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
|
I agree with rug, ethanol is crap in that it's no better for the environment and is nothing but a big government subsidy to the agri-business market at the expense of taking land away from food production.
However I have NEVER had any problem with running it in a carbed car, maybe because I tend to service my fuel system at least once per decade. I daily drive my satellite spring-fall and with the 10% ethanol pump 94 it runs just fine. Never had issues with deteriorated fuel line, never ran efi fuel hose, and never had fuel pumps or carbs give me trouble. But then again, like I said, everything gets serviced at least once a decade so any carb kits or fuel hose made within the last decade or two is going to be alcohol compatable. Even my 32 year old sled burns the 10% ethanol fuel just fine, and a 2-stroke running all day at 5000rpm in the dead cold of winter can be picky if it wants to.
|
|
|
Re: ethanol
[Re: RapidRobert]
#603733
02/08/10 09:08 PM
02/08/10 09:08 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 541
chatham, Ilinois
fox
super street
|
super street
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 541
chatham, Ilinois
|
Quote:
Quote:
The benefit of e-85 is the octane! You can run 13-14 to 1.
This is where the economy comes in. Motor is far more efficient with more cylinder pressure, and that is what ethanol allows.
Excellent! I might just go that route w the 318. Do you have a suggestion on where I can go for carb/timing etc mods? 
From what I have read, the timing should be the same to start out.
The fuel needs are +20%.
|
|
|
Re: ethanol
[Re: Rug_Trucker]
#603735
02/08/10 11:23 PM
02/08/10 11:23 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 522
Lenox Iowa
MMiller
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 522
Lenox Iowa
|
Quote:
OMG there is some bad info on this thread.
Ethanol production uses more fossil fuel to make it than it's worth. Corn production uses way too much water, pesticides, and chemical fertilizer. It is poisoning, and depleting the ground water in Nebraska.
This crap is a hand out from the gov to big agri-business. If it wasn't subsidised it would never fly.
Farm much? Got real, up to date numbers on both sides to back up your statements? Arnold in California uses very old production numbers, and overcalculates to say ethanol takes too much energy to produce. We raise WAY more corn now then we did even 10 years ago, on the same resources. Any farmer will only use the amount of fertilizer the corn needs, and will only spend the minimum on killing bugs. Did you realize that a lot of pestisides are natural and are made from plants? Did you know that pestisides and fertilizer are expensive, and any farmer will make sure and get the best of his investment? Did you know that the left over from an ethanol plant goes to the nearest cattle lot, were the cows have an easier time digesting the stuff in corn it needs?
I do farm, and while I'm not sure that Ethanol is the silver bullet to stop foriegn oil, it is a stepping stone to the next generation of fuels. Someone has to start somewhere. I'd rather live next to a corn field then a nuclear power plant any day.
Now back on topic. I've never had any problem running 89, or 91 octane with 10% ethanol, even my carbed engines. My weedeater starts on the first pull, my garden tractor is fine. Even after setting months shut off for the winter. I've got E85 in my pulling truck, it has not started since October. I'll see if I need to pull the carb apart because the ethanol nay-sayers says the carb will be full of junk. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I'm running 6 pack pistons, 915 heads, and it runs a whole bunch better then it ever did on pump gas. I won't be going back to pump gas.
Sorry Rug Trucker to quote you, but farming has been my upbringing and my way of life. Corn and soybeans, one way or another has been respondsible for most every paycheck I've ever earned, and hopefully the rest of them. Since I was about 8 years old, its all I've wanted to do. On our particular farm, we use much less fuel, and energy since the ethanol plant opened. Before our corn would travel 100-200 miles from our farm before it was processed. Now it travels 18 miles from farm to process. On our farm we handle more corn per acre then we did ten years ago, and use less fuel doing it. We are changing our fertilizer application program, and will be getting more production from the same about of fertilzer then we ever did before. We use the minimum amount of herbicides, and pesticides, while still getting yeilds.
Michael
93 W250 CTD getrag, Bosch 185 injectors, AFE air filter. Trailer puller, daily driver,
90 W250 CTD 727 with smokin 5" stacks. Off road truck
75 Dodge W200 440 4spd 4x4 locked front and rear, twin disc clutch, E85. Pulling truck
|
|
|
Re: ethanol
[Re: MMiller]
#603736
02/09/10 09:44 AM
02/09/10 09:44 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 541
chatham, Ilinois
fox
super street
|
super street
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 541
chatham, Ilinois
|
Quote:
Quote:
OMG there is some bad info on this thread.
Ethanol production uses more fossil fuel to make it than it's worth. Corn production uses way too much water, pesticides, and chemical fertilizer. It is poisoning, and depleting the ground water in Nebraska.
This crap is a hand out from the gov to big agri-business. If it wasn't subsidised it would never fly.
Farm much? Got real, up to date numbers on both sides to back up your statements? Arnold in California uses very old production numbers, and overcalculates to say ethanol takes too much energy to produce. We raise WAY more corn now then we did even 10 years ago, on the same resources. Any farmer will only use the amount of fertilizer the corn needs, and will only spend the minimum on killing bugs. Did you realize that a lot of pestisides are natural and are made from plants? Did you know that pestisides and fertilizer are expensive, and any farmer will make sure and get the best of his investment? Did you know that the left over from an ethanol plant goes to the nearest cattle lot, were the cows have an easier time digesting the stuff in corn it needs?
I do farm, and while I'm not sure that Ethanol is the silver bullet to stop foriegn oil, it is a stepping stone to the next generation of fuels. Someone has to start somewhere. I'd rather live next to a corn field then a nuclear power plant any day.
Now back on topic. I've never had any problem running 89, or 91 octane with 10% ethanol, even my carbed engines. My weedeater starts on the first pull, my garden tractor is fine. Even after setting months shut off for the winter. I've got E85 in my pulling truck, it has not started since October. I'll see if I need to pull the carb apart because the ethanol nay-sayers says the carb will be full of junk. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I'm running 6 pack pistons, 915 heads, and it runs a whole bunch better then it ever did on pump gas. I won't be going back to pump gas.
Sorry Rug Trucker to quote you, but farming has been my upbringing and my way of life. Corn and soybeans, one way or another has been respondsible for most every paycheck I've ever earned, and hopefully the rest of them. Since I was about 8 years old, its all I've wanted to do. On our particular farm, we use much less fuel, and energy since the ethanol plant opened. Before our corn would travel 100-200 miles from our farm before it was processed. Now it travels 18 miles from farm to process. On our farm we handle more corn per acre then we did ten years ago, and use less fuel doing it. We are changing our fertilizer application program, and will be getting more production from the same about of fertilzer then we ever did before. We use the minimum amount of herbicides, and pesticides, while still getting yeilds.
Michael
Good post!!!
Those who say ethanol caused issues with the small engines, most likely had a bad batch of it and it was a much higher ratio, which was too lean. Most vehicles I have owned did show better mileage with a 10% blend. One that didn't was a V-10 dodge.
Ethanol can not replace oil but it will reduce it and the dependence on it.
|
|
|
Re: ethanol
[Re: fox]
#603737
02/09/10 02:45 PM
02/09/10 02:45 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
|
I ran it in my 318 MPG project and it hardly changed anything except the smell. MPG didn't suffer even at 85% ethanol. Also in preperation I soaked some fuel system pieces in the stuff in glass jars for a year and none of them showed any sighns of corrsion or deterioration includeing aluminum, steel and rubber both very old original lines and newer rubber hoses, no harm done to any of them.
The flex fuel cars get worse miledge because they richen it up so much to keep emmisions of NOX down. E-85 has less BTU but more of it can be put to use in an engine desighned for its use instead of a compromise for "flex fuel use". You can run a lot higher compression and because it has oxygen mixed in next to every molecule it can burn more completly with in the small time frame it is in the sealed cylinder pushing on the crank.
As for the food supply getting ruined, so what! The only thing removed from the food supply is sugar, but then how will we continue getting more and more obease without our precious sugar? The important stuff is still left for us and all our beloved animals made out of meat eat the left overs and it makes them healthier for us to eat than just plain fat animals.
I really wish e85 was available here so I could continue my experiments and build a 273 at about 13 to one compression and make lots of power and efficency.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
|
|
|
|
|
We've had it here for 20 yrs and it caused vapor lock/stalling in the summertime w carbureted cars exp at stoplights, no prob now for the general motoring public now that everything is FI. Alcohol boils at a much lower temp than gasoline does. Dont know about the emissions side of it but it (ethanol) which is alcohol fermented from corn as opposed to methanol (wood based) like "heet" brand gas line antifreeze which is very corrosive. Ethanol is a step away from foreign oil dependency but alcohol has a much lower energy content than an identical volume of gasoline and for us hot rodders non ethanol is the way to go so if you can find the octane you need in a non ethanol pump that'd be the one to use.
