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Re: Sonic Test
[Re: Thumperdart]
#603167
02/12/10 03:14 AM
02/12/10 03:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
don`t have my sheet in front of me but when I called DLI they said my block would make a good flower pot...............10 years later and SEVERAL 7000+ rpm passes it`s still goin strong.
Yea, and they told me that after I spent 15K with them (in the mid 1980's!) that my SS/DA Hemi would be good to go until the end of the racing season....And it promptly spun all the main bearings on the 3rd pass.
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Re: Sonic Test
[Re: mac56]
#603169
02/12/10 08:34 AM
02/12/10 08:34 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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IMO the block is ok for your intended use. Not perfect, but usable. It might be better to sleeve #5 as it will be under .100 on the pin axis and 700hp will move the block around. There are no 100% promises with 40yr old parts. But with good parts and preparation, good machining, and good tuning it should last fine. If you're at all nervous go with a 1/2 fill and you won't have a problem. I'm curious why you aren't using them for the build if they obviously have the quality equipment and enough motivation to want to check the important things.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Sonic Test
[Re: moper]
#603170
02/12/10 10:10 AM
02/12/10 10:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,301
Edgartown, MA/ Greene, ME
CharlieB
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,301
Edgartown, MA/ Greene, ME
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Quote:
IMO the block is ok for your intended use. Not perfect, but usable. It might be better to sleeve #5 as it will be under .100 on the pin axis and 700hp will move the block around. There are no 100% promises with 40yr old parts. But with good parts and preparation, good machining, and good tuning it should last fine. If you're at all nervous go with a 1/2 fill and you won't have a problem. I'm curious why you aren't using them for the build if they obviously have the quality equipment and enough motivation to want to check the important things.
They are a commercial/industrial machine shop they do mostly truck/diesel engine work- but they are within a 1/2 hour of me and offer the hot tanking, magnafluxing and sonic testing at a reasonable price. Wanted to clean the block up after teardown and get a first impression before I went any further. Looking to use a Mopar friendly, Moparts Board member if at all possible.
There are at least 3 in the New England area that I have a high regard for, Moper you being one of them.
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Re: Sonic Test
[Re: CharlieB]
#603173
02/12/10 10:48 PM
02/12/10 10:48 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Quote:
Here's the test results what do you guys think?
I've had some time to think about your numbers and compare to my data and I think you might be better off than it appears. While my tester is a knockoff and not the spendy one it does seem to work okay and I verify it on every block I test to see if it's reading correctly. I do this by measuring an area on the block that can also be directly measured with a caliper or micrometer. If you add your major thrust and minor thrust thicknesses to your bore diameter you get a sort of outer diameter of the bore on the thrust axis. I say sort of because it's based on minimum measurements that may not be directly across from each other and an average of thicknesses up and down the bore would be more representative of what the cylinder is really like. That said, your numbers produce an average OD of 4.727" and I've never seen one that small in any of the 14 400's and 440's I've tested. The 4 400's I've tested average 4.796" and that number might be small because 2 of them were 1978 models that were the 2 smallest OD's of all the 400/440 blocks I've tested. FWIW, my '72 400 was 4.809". The 440's I've tested averaged 4.812" and the numbers were all close enough together that I can confidently say that a 440 will be about 4.8" without even testing it.
Now it could be that my tester reads thick but then that means that the couple of blocks I've measured that produced numbers in the 0.110-0.120" range would have to be extremely thin. It could also be that you have a block that is terribly rusted but I doubt it. I'm starting to doubt the calibration of the tester used on your block and it would be nice if others who have data would speak up and agree or tell me I'm wrong.
Additional info to toss out there for discussion if anyone is interested: 3 motorhome 413 blocks (all '72-'73) averaged 4.732", the 3 smallest of the 14 400/440 blocks were ALL 1978 models and were 4.77x", a 1977 440 was 4.836" and was second biggest of all. Some day I'll get around to testing the rest of the 400's and 440's I have around but they're hard to get to now.
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Re: Sonic Test
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#603174
02/13/10 12:19 AM
02/13/10 12:19 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,301
Edgartown, MA/ Greene, ME
CharlieB
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,301
Edgartown, MA/ Greene, ME
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Quote:
Quote:
Here's the test results what do you guys think?
I've had some time to think about your numbers and compare to my data and I think you might be better off than it appears. While my tester is a knockoff and not the spendy one it does seem to work okay and I verify it on every block I test to see if it's reading correctly. I do this by measuring an area on the block that can also be directly measured with a caliper or micrometer. If you add your major thrust and minor thrust thicknesses to your bore diameter you get a sort of outer diameter of the bore on the thrust axis. I say sort of because it's based on minimum measurements that may not be directly across from each other and an average of thicknesses up and down the bore would be more representative of what the cylinder is really like. That said, your numbers produce an average OD of 4.727" and I've never seen one that small in any of the 14 400's and 440's I've tested. The 4 400's I've tested average 4.796" and that number might be small because 2 of them were 1978 models that were the 2 smallest OD's of all the 400/440 blocks I've tested. FWIW, my '72 400 was 4.809". The 440's I've tested averaged 4.812" and the numbers were all close enough together that I can confidently say that a 440 will be about 4.8" without even testing it.
Now it could be that my tester reads thick but then that means that the couple of blocks I've measured that produced numbers in the 0.110-0.120" range would have to be extremely thin. It could also be that you have a block that is terribly rusted but I doubt it. I'm starting to doubt the calibration of the tester used on your block and it would be nice if others who have data would speak up and agree or tell me I'm wrong.
Additional info to toss out there for discussion if anyone is interested: 3 motorhome 413 blocks (all '72-'73) averaged 4.732", the 3 smallest of the 14 400/440 blocks were ALL 1978 models and were 4.77x", a 1977 440 was 4.836" and was second biggest of all. Some day I'll get around to testing the rest of the 400's and 440's I have around but they're hard to get to now.
Very interesting info- I suspect their tester is right-on. This is an oldschool Maine shop 75 years in the machine business- I've had 3 Town deisel Cat engines done there over the last 5, years- very good reputation. They knew they were not going to be working the block and that i was going to stroke it - all chevy guys in the shop, thought Mopar was a waste of good money LOL- but were interested in the build anyway.
I've got $289.00 total, included testing in this block. I'm expecting to have $10-12 K in it when I'm done. I'll walk away from this block if it's a no go- It was as rusted as a block could be. Sat in a New Hampsher garage for 10 years- unmolseted, but bare.
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Re: Sonic Test
[Re: CharlieB]
#603175
02/13/10 09:49 AM
02/13/10 09:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Since its a marine shop they know about sonic testing...lol. It's more common in that industry due to cooling system corrosion. When I test I do four or five spots up the bore in each compass direction (about every inch of cylinder core length) plus a steady scan up the same line. A testor only tests the point at which it touches the metal. The way to get a real picture of the back of the bore you need to plot enough points that you can see the trend.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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