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injected sixpack #599442
01/31/10 10:54 AM
01/31/10 10:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Solon, Oh
Convertible Bee Offline OP
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Convertible Bee  Offline OP
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Solon, Oh
Some photos of a sixpack injection I'm building for my 69 a-12 clone convertible.
Using mega squirt for the ecu, controls the timing and injectors.
file:

5771542-DSC01484.JPG (215 downloads)
Last edited by Convertible Bee; 01/31/10 10:57 AM.
Re: injected sixpack [Re: Convertible Bee] #599443
01/31/10 01:08 PM
01/31/10 01:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,963
Wisconsin
Stewpar Offline
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Wisconsin
What intake are you running? More pictures please!


Admiration For Multiple Carburetor Vehicles...
Re: injected sixpack [Re: Convertible Bee] #599444
01/31/10 01:44 PM
01/31/10 01:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 579
Ft.Myers,Florida
Hemiruss Offline
mopar
Hemiruss  Offline
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Ft.Myers,Florida
Nice looking set up Now keep up the updates on how it works....

Re: injected sixpack [Re: Hemiruss] #599445
01/31/10 01:59 PM
01/31/10 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Re: injected sixpack [Re: autoxcuda] #599446
01/31/10 02:51 PM
01/31/10 02:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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I always wondered if the 6-pack intake would perform better with a throttle body style efi or with port efi. I only throw that out there because I've heard the 6-pack intake has a good bit of dry flow cfm variance between the ports.

Re: injected sixpack [Re: autoxcuda] #599447
01/31/10 09:03 PM
01/31/10 09:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Solon, Oh
Convertible Bee Offline OP
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Solon, Oh
Not a f&b set up, I'm going to try an injection with three throttle bodies on a stock manifold. Going for as little mods to my car as possible, want the option to go back to stock. It will look close to having the hollys, just silver in color. Will post more pics as I progress in machining these tbi's up.

5772820-151a.jpg (119 downloads)
Last edited by Convertible Bee; 03/03/10 09:23 PM.
Re: injected sixpack [Re: Convertible Bee] #599448
02/03/10 10:29 PM
02/03/10 10:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 529
Marilla, New York
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RalleyA12 Offline
mopar
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Marilla, New York
Who's throttle bodies are they ?

Re: injected sixpack [Re: RalleyA12] #599449
02/19/10 07:28 PM
02/19/10 07:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Solon, Oh
Convertible Bee Offline OP
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Solon, Oh
I'm the one fabricating these bodies, hope to have some more pic soon, I'm close to being able to put them on my 440, if all goes well, will be able to see how they work in a few weeks.

Re: injected sixpack [Re: Convertible Bee] #599450
02/27/10 03:34 PM
02/27/10 03:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Solon, Oh
Convertible Bee Offline OP
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Solon, Oh
A picture of some machining I've done this week. More to follow.

5833733-IMG_2934a.jpg (144 downloads)
Last edited by Convertible Bee; 02/27/10 03:36 PM.
Re: injected sixpack [Re: Convertible Bee] #599451
02/27/10 05:10 PM
02/27/10 05:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,240
Saline, MI
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efisixpack Offline
pro stock
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Saline, MI
Looks good! Looks like you took the same approach I did when I built mine. I like the fact they look to be approximately the same height as factory carbs. It will look a lot better that way IMO. Question for ya, what size throttle blades did you go with and what CFM do you estimate?

5833907-EFI6pack.jpg (96 downloads)

When I die I want to go like my Grandfather did, quietly in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Re: injected sixpack [Re: efisixpack] #599452
02/28/10 12:47 AM
02/28/10 12:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
Alikazam Offline
super gas
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Beaverton, OR, USA
Looks very sweet as does efisixpack's! Keep us posted and PICS! we love them... well I do. What you using to control your setup efisixpack? If that's not too much of a thread jack Just curious as OP is going to use Megasquirt and I was thinking about same thing possibly, just curious what others have used successfully as well.

Re: injected sixpack [Re: efisixpack] #599453
02/28/10 10:15 AM
02/28/10 10:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Solon, Oh
Convertible Bee Offline OP
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Solon, Oh
Sweet looking setup efisixpack,how's your car perform with it?
what size injectors are you running? I'm starting with 6, 50lb injectors.

The plates I'm using are from a holley 600 (300cfm), so 900 total my guess.I don't feel this is correct because of the the throttle bodies use straight and carbs use venturis to draw fuel, probably will flow more when I'm done machining lead in velocity stacks.


I know machining on the edge of the vice isn't good, just needed some room for the electric connectors,small details that keep things from working. All fits now.

5835314-IMG_2926a.jpg (72 downloads)
Last edited by Convertible Bee; 02/28/10 10:26 AM.
Re: injected sixpack [Re: Convertible Bee] #599454
02/28/10 12:03 PM
02/28/10 12:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
S
sixpackgut Offline
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Charleston
both of those setups look very nice.


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: injected sixpack [Re: Convertible Bee] #599455
02/28/10 01:57 PM
02/28/10 01:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1 Offline
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South-Central (Sebring), FL
The talent you can find on Moparts is amazing sometimes.

Re: injected sixpack [Re: Commando1] #599456
03/02/10 08:59 PM
03/02/10 08:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,240
Saline, MI
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efisixpack Offline
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Saline, MI
Bee - Your set-up looks great. I like the way you are hiding the injectors too. As for sizing, I went with 36# because it's a pretty mild motor. The system has worked great for a long time now but I really need to update the cam to one better suited for efi. I built the system 10 years ago, finally finished the car late 2003 (it's getting antiquated lol) and now I'm playing around with a slight redesign. Nothing fancy, just smaller throttle blades (I have 1-3/4" now) and I want to adapt a different TPS. If you have any questions or are looking for any tips feel free to ask. I'll do my best to help if you need any.

As for the ECU I'm using, I started off with an Electromotive Tech II but upgraded to a Gen VII several years ago. I'm really interested to see how the megasquirt works out for you. Please keep me posted!

P.S. - I wish I had your machining skills


When I die I want to go like my Grandfather did, quietly in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
Re: injected sixpack [Re: sixpackgut] #599457
03/03/10 01:10 PM
03/03/10 01:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 634
USA
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Slider Offline
super gas
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USA
Quote:

both of those setups look very nice.






But, I have a question. I have been trying to learn as much as I can about EFI setups, and ran across the following from Richard Nedbal (after someone here posted a link to it, sorry I forgot who):

"Now there are several types of EFI but I’m only going to discuss direct port injection - meaning injectors mounted right at the intake valve. Injectors mounted where the carburetor would be are not much better than a well-tuned carb so those systems will be ignored. With electronic port fuel injection you place the injectors right at the intake valve."

...when I read that, I interpreted it to mean multiple throttle bodies are not a good idea. I wanted to use 3 throttle bodies (3 x 2, side draught on a straight 6 cylinder), but when I read that, I started wondering if it was a good idea.

efi, I noticed your injectors are positioned over the intake valvues, like he suggested. Have you had any trouble with your setup? What kind of improvement did you realize going to EFI?

bee, since it looks like your injectors are more traditionally positioned like mine would be (i.e. carb~ish), do you anticipate any trouble witht he setup, versus mounting them more like efi did?

Not trying to start or debate anything. Just trying to learn. Thanks!

Re: injected sixpack [Re: Slider] #599458
03/03/10 01:25 PM
03/03/10 01:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

Injectors mounted where the carburetor would be are not much better than a well-tuned carb so those systems will be ignored.




Ignore that line. Throttle body efi is still going to offer better driveability than a carb. WOT performance and cylinder to cylinder a/f variation being the downside of any wet flow intake will still be the same as with a carb, which is why port efi is generally considered better. A throttle body efi system can still be much more precisely tuned than a carb, but you do give up the benefits of port efi. But with an intake like a 6-pack, which is noted for having cylinder to cylinder air flow differences between intake runners, and seeing the intake was designed for wet flow, a throttle body system is just as good of a choice for it. The OEm produced throttle body efi cars for years and they did well, often putting out slightly more power than their carbed counterparts. Not that the 80's/early 90's was exactly a hi-po era...

Re: injected sixpack [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #599459
03/03/10 07:27 PM
03/03/10 07:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
Alikazam Offline
super gas
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Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
From what I've read, I tend to agree with DaytonaTurbo. Also the ability to lean out a map for a cruise situation to maximize fuel economy is like changing jets in the carb based on driving conditions. You can only get so close, but have a much broader range of adjustment with EFI and the same injector. Anyway, SMPFI > MPFI > TBI > Carb... as I read it... Anyone else?

Re: injected sixpack [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #599460
03/03/10 08:59 PM
03/03/10 08:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Solon, Oh
Convertible Bee Offline OP
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Convertible Bee  Offline OP
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Solon, Oh
I'm going to agree with DaytonaTurbo about the wet manifold vs a port injection, the tbi setup I'm building I have no doubt will be more consistent in performance than the holleys that are currently on my car.
Starting has been an issue on a cold day or very hot one fuel would boil in the bowls.(I guess I should have known better than to use a tri power off a 68 vette.)

As far as Sliders Q, no mechanical problems are anticipated, my issues will be with fuel mapping and the spark curve. I will be asking for help when it's time to start mapping.

Here's a pic of the setup with the end tbi with pressure regulator and gauge installed.
will try to machine the top lead-in and air cleaner stud bosses next week.

5843714-IMG_2937a.jpg (66 downloads)
Re: injected sixpack [Re: Convertible Bee] #599461
05/22/10 10:44 AM
05/22/10 10:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Solon, Oh
Convertible Bee Offline OP
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Posts: 65
Solon, Oh
A picture of the set up on my car.
Got it started on Thursday, having a lot of noise on the ignition pickup, so not running great yet.
Will try to post a pdf. of the build, machining of my set up when I find out how to.

5996816-IMG_2967.jpg (71 downloads)
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