Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question
[Re: 69Cuda340S]
#59616
05/21/08 10:19 AM
05/21/08 10:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
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Quote:
I'd sell that 340 crank instead of paying to have it reconditioned. Then buy a complete 4" internally balanced rotating assembly. Again, run some cost numbers.
Save some money, bypass the EB heads and buy a stroker crank, money will be better spent on the added stroke than any gain the heads MIGHT offer over a nice set of iron heads that can be purchased and put together for half the cost of EB's.
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Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#59617
05/21/08 10:47 AM
05/21/08 10:47 AM
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Posts: 3,298 Stroudsburg, PA
Erik
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OK - I hear you. I can certainly save $$ going the cast iron head route. I am still not sold on the stroker kit. I have seen prices that range from $1000 to $3500. My builder talked about an Eagle kit. Any recommendations there? I see Mancini has a Callies kit for 2K. I would like to stay w/ a forged crank. When I price out (in Summit catalog) rods/pistons/bearings/rings I come up below $1000. The only way I see a stroker kit being cost competitive is if I switch to a cast crank. Would a cast crank be bad for my application? I would think not. Maybe I should reconsider this forged crank thing.....
Last edited by Erik; 05/21/08 11:25 AM.
1970 Challenger Convertible soon to be T/A convertible
Contrary to the opinions of some, I am not dumber than I look.
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Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#59621
05/21/08 11:47 AM
05/21/08 11:47 AM
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Erik
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Thanks for the info. I found a set of redone J heads for $800. If I picked these up, would I need to get them ported?
1970 Challenger Convertible soon to be T/A convertible
Contrary to the opinions of some, I am not dumber than I look.
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Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question
[Re: Erik]
#59622
05/21/08 11:55 AM
05/21/08 11:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 864 St Paul MN
73swinger
super stock
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super stock
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St Paul MN
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Erik, if you do go factory crank and all, the KB hyperutetic cast pistons work well, and are lighter. 340 E heads will be needed if the KBR243 pistons are used. Thats my combo and it will work on pump gas (mid to premium). but it is kind of old school. That said, if I was to do over, I would go to a 4" internal balance.
good luck, and if you do go factory route, you can PM me for more info.
Chris Schwartz
73 Swinger 340 12.451 @ 108.78
73 Gold Duster, needs a plan.
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Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question
[Re: Erik]
#59623
05/21/08 11:59 AM
05/21/08 11:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,343 MARYLAND
69Cuda340S
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Quote:
Thanks for the info. I found a set of redone J heads for $800. If I picked these up, would I need to get them ported?
Have you looked at the EQ heads? They are based on Magnum heads, closed chamber, flow way better then X or J heads, and have a thick casting so they could be ported out. If you are on a budget those would work well out of the box and later on you could port them out. A brand new pair complete is less then those J heads:
http://www.aaeq.net/Enginequest/Cylinder_heads/performance
Or with some port work just a little more then the J heads:
http://www.hughesengines.com/partDetail.asp?partID=11901&eTypeID=1
If I was going to go with iron heads those are what I would use.
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Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question
[Re: 69Cuda340S]
#59624
05/21/08 12:26 PM
05/21/08 12:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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A complete SCAT kit internally balanced and ready to drop in is $1279 I had another board member tell me he can sell them to me for that price. It has forged pistons I beam rods and a cast crank. Comes with rings and bearings. Your 340 if you buy rods SCAT I beams or eagle crap $275, forged pistons $400 Balance crank $150 rings and bearings $200 you are over $1000, you can sell your 340 crank for $150 all day long and make up all the differance. Unless you are class limited it makes no sense. Also don't pay $800 for iron heads unless they are fully ported by a pro with stainless valves and good springs. If they are just plain old rebuilt no more than $300. I do agree about the EQ heads being a real good value. Clearwatercylinderhead on e-bay sells some with 2.02 valves and good springs for $475each http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-EQ-MO...emZ370052320832They should make as much power (mabey a few more) as eddys and save almost $500 If they make 10 more HP they will take care of the weight differance.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question
[Re: Erik]
#59625
05/21/08 12:37 PM
05/21/08 12:37 PM
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dogdays
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Redone stock heads for $800? Are you kidding? Lousy combustion chamber, old, heavy, don't flow with the Edelbrocks. I think it's a step backwards. There aren't any OEM heads that flow worth a crap. If you want cast iron go with W-2s. Look at www.shadydellspeedshop.com to get some info. You can build as big an engine as you like but the heads will determine the horsepower limit. R.
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Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question
[Re: HotRodDave]
#59626
05/21/08 01:13 PM
05/21/08 01:13 PM
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Quote:
A complete SCAT kit internally balanced and ready to drop in is $1279 I had another board member tell me he can sell them to me for that price. It has forged pistons I beam rods and a cast crank. Comes with rings and bearings.
And you don't have to clearance the block either with that kit.
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Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question
[Re: dogdays]
#59627
05/21/08 01:14 PM
05/21/08 01:14 PM
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Posts: 3,298 Stroudsburg, PA
Erik
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I am not familiar w/ the EQ heads - I'll look at them. I also thought $800 was a bit steep for J heads - hence I didn't get them. I have a call into the machine shop to talk cost of what we talked about yesterday as compared to a cast stroker kit.
1970 Challenger Convertible soon to be T/A convertible
Contrary to the opinions of some, I am not dumber than I look.
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Re: Building a 340 - Various Buildup Questions
[Re: Erik]
#59629
05/21/08 02:52 PM
05/21/08 02:52 PM
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Erik
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I found another set of 340 J heads that have been redone/pocketed/ported/etc for $650 here on Moparts. That sounds like a better price.
1970 Challenger Convertible soon to be T/A convertible
Contrary to the opinions of some, I am not dumber than I look.
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Re: Building a 340 - Various Buildup Questions
[Re: Erik]
#59630
05/21/08 03:04 PM
05/21/08 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
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Quote:
I found another set of 340 J heads that have been redone/pocketed/ported/etc for $650 here on Moparts. That sounds like a better price.
Yes, $650.00 for a pocket ported set of fresh J heads with a good set of valves and springs sounds about right.
Keep in mind that your short block is the foundation of your engine, putting money in your short block now is the way to go, you won't see a bigger gain from a street small block than building a stroker. If you ever want step up to a better flowing set of heads down the road it's an easy bolt on change, nothing as involved as changing the stroke of your engine.
Build the stroker low end now, use whatever the best set of heads and other accessories that you can afford, and make upgrades later as budget allows. Don't forget, a good set of J (or any 915 heads) will make very decent power, they just don't make as much as some other choices that can cost allot more.
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Re: Building a 340 - Various Buildup Questions
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#59631
05/21/08 03:18 PM
05/21/08 03:18 PM
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69Cuda340S
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The Scat kit I am getting comes with KB745 forged step dish pistons: http://kb-silvolite.com/forged.php?action=details&P_id=325If you run them with open chamber J heads your compression will be about 9.4-9.5 to 1 which will work good for pump gas. Get the block machined so the quench pad is at zero deck and the dish portion is below deck. Then later you could switch to Edelbrock closed chamber heads for 10:1 compression pump gas motor. Like Harms said, if the budget is tight put the money in the short block so that high flow closed chamber heads can be put on later when more funds become available.
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Re: Building a 340 - Various Buildup Questions
[Re: 69Cuda340S]
#59632
05/21/08 03:42 PM
05/21/08 03:42 PM
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Erik
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OK - you guys talked me into it & I just got off the phone w/ the machine shop. I will build the 416 stroker and start w/ a set of ported stock heads. I now need to decide on the kit for my build. I mentioned Scat again and he didn't seem to put up too much of a fight. He talked about having to do pan rail clearance w/ the kits he has used before. Am I correct in that the Scat rods don't need to have the rail cleared?
1970 Challenger Convertible soon to be T/A convertible
Contrary to the opinions of some, I am not dumber than I look.
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Re: Building a 340 - Various Buildup Questions
[Re: Erik]
#59633
05/21/08 04:06 PM
05/21/08 04:06 PM
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69Cuda340S
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Quote:
OK - you guys talked me into it & I just got off the phone w/ the machine shop. I will build the 416 stroker and start w/ a set of ported stock heads.
I now need to decide on the kit for my build. I mentioned Scat again and he didn't seem to put up too much of a fight. He talked about having to do pan rail clearance w/ the kits he has used before. Am I correct in that the Scat rods don't need to have the rail cleared?
Its not a chevy or a ford so no pan rail clearance is needed. Typically on a SB mopar you will need to notch the bottom of the cylinders if you use stock rods and some other rods. The Scat I-beam rods, which are forged, use ARP cap screws which are real low profile so no cylinder bore notching is needed. So the answer is no notching is needed anywhere but check it anyway.
I called Scat a few weeks back and they tell me they guaranty the bearing clearances and balance of their kits. I am going pay more to have my engine shop go over all of it and double check it anyway. They have an online catalog:
http://www.scatenterprises.com/
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