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Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: Erik] #59614 05/21/08 10:12 AM 05/21/08 10:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington	Erik, don't drink the "X Heads are the best" Koolaid, O,J,Z, Blank, etc. any "915" casting 340/360 heads can flow just as well, they are nearly identical in every way to X heads and have just as much potential.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #59615 05/21/08 10:15 AM 05/21/08 10:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND 69Cuda340S master
69Cuda340S master Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND	I'd sell that 340 crank instead of paying to have it reconditioned. Then buy a complete 4" internally balanced rotating assembly. Again, run some cost numbers.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: 69Cuda340S] #59616 05/21/08 10:19 AM 05/21/08 10:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington	Quote: I'd sell that 340 crank instead of paying to have it reconditioned. Then buy a complete 4" internally balanced rotating assembly. Again, run some cost numbers. Save some money, bypass the EB heads and buy a stroker crank, money will be better spent on the added stroke than any gain the heads MIGHT offer over a nice set of iron heads that can be purchased and put together for half the cost of EB's.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #59617 05/21/08 10:47 AM 05/21/08 10:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,288 Stroudsburg, PA Erik OP master
Erik OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,288 Stroudsburg, PA	OK - I hear you. I can certainly save $$ going the cast iron head route. I am still not sold on the stroker kit. I have seen prices that range from $1000 to $3500. My builder talked about an Eagle kit. Any recommendations there? I see Mancini has a Callies kit for 2K. I would like to stay w/ a forged crank. When I price out (in Summit catalog) rods/pistons/bearings/rings I come up below $1000. The only way I see a stroker kit being cost competitive is if I switch to a cast crank. Would a cast crank be bad for my application? I would think not. Maybe I should reconsider this forged crank thing..... Last edited by Erik; 05/21/08 11:25 AM. 1970 Challenger Convertible soon to be T/A convertible Contrary to the opinions of some, I am not dumber than I look.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: Erik] #59618 05/21/08 11:34 AM 05/21/08 11:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND 69Cuda340S master
69Cuda340S master Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND	I am going with the Scat cast crank rotating assembly and the kit was $1279 from summit with forged pistons, internally balance, with rings and bearings. It is cast steel and will live a long time at 500 hp or less type applications. Plenty of people out there running low 11s with cast stroker cranks in there small blocks. Go with ARP main studs too.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: Erik] #59619 05/21/08 11:37 AM 05/21/08 11:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington	Nothing wrong with a cast crank for less than 500HP. I would always prefer a forged crank but it's not the end of the world if you can't afford one. One reason you see higher prices with a kit is because most include final machining, balancing, clearancing, etc. You typically need to have that done when you combine off the shelf parts, so, even though the kits "seem" more expensive, in the long run they can actually be cheaper.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #59620 05/21/08 11:45 AM 05/21/08 11:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND 69Cuda340S master
69Cuda340S master Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND	Look at the weight of the cranks and you will see the cast cranks are lighter which lets the motor rev quicker. I wouldn't go forged unless you are going over 500 hp or are going to rev it over 6000 rpm frequently.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #59621 05/21/08 11:47 AM 05/21/08 11:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,288 Stroudsburg, PA Erik OP master
Erik OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,288 Stroudsburg, PA	Thanks for the info. I found a set of redone J heads for $800. If I picked these up, would I need to get them ported? 1970 Challenger Convertible soon to be T/A convertible Contrary to the opinions of some, I am not dumber than I look.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: Erik] #59622 05/21/08 11:55 AM 05/21/08 11:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 864 St Paul MN 7 73swinger super stock
73swinger super stock 7 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 864 St Paul MN	Erik, if you do go factory crank and all, the KB hyperutetic cast pistons work well, and are lighter. 340 E heads will be needed if the KBR243 pistons are used. Thats my combo and it will work on pump gas (mid to premium). but it is kind of old school. That said, if I was to do over, I would go to a 4" internal balance. good luck, and if you do go factory route, you can PM me for more info. Chris Schwartz 73 Swinger 340 12.451 @ 108.78 73 Gold Duster, needs a plan.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: Erik] #59623 05/21/08 11:59 AM 05/21/08 11:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND 69Cuda340S master
69Cuda340S master Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND	Quote: Thanks for the info. I found a set of redone J heads for $800. If I picked these up, would I need to get them ported? Have you looked at the EQ heads? They are based on Magnum heads, closed chamber, flow way better then X or J heads, and have a thick casting so they could be ported out. If you are on a budget those would work well out of the box and later on you could port them out. A brand new pair complete is less then those J heads: http://www.aaeq.net/Enginequest/Cylinder_heads/performance Or with some port work just a little more then the J heads: http://www.hughesengines.com/partDetail.asp?partID=11901&eTypeID=1 If I was going to go with iron heads those are what I would use.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: 69Cuda340S] #59624 05/21/08 12:26 PM 05/21/08 12:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	A complete SCAT kit internally balanced and ready to drop in is $1279 I had another board member tell me he can sell them to me for that price. It has forged pistons I beam rods and a cast crank. Comes with rings and bearings. Your 340 if you buy rods SCAT I beams or eagle crap $275, forged pistons $400 Balance crank $150 rings and bearings $200 you are over $1000, you can sell your 340 crank for $150 all day long and make up all the differance. Unless you are class limited it makes no sense. Also don't pay $800 for iron heads unless they are fully ported by a pro with stainless valves and good springs. If they are just plain old rebuilt no more than $300. I do agree about the EQ heads being a real good value. Clearwatercylinderhead on e-bay sells some with 2.02 valves and good springs for $475each http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-EQ-MO...emZ370052320832 They should make as much power (mabey a few more) as eddys and save almost $500 If they make 10 more HP they will take care of the weight differance. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: Erik] #59625 05/21/08 12:37 PM 05/21/08 12:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	Redone stock heads for $800? Are you kidding? Lousy combustion chamber, old, heavy, don't flow with the Edelbrocks. I think it's a step backwards. There aren't any OEM heads that flow worth a crap. If you want cast iron go with W-2s. Look at www.shadydellspeedshop.com to get some info. You can build as big an engine as you like but the heads will determine the horsepower limit. R.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: HotRodDave] #59626 05/21/08 01:13 PM 05/21/08 01:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND 69Cuda340S master
69Cuda340S master Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND	Quote: A complete SCAT kit internally balanced and ready to drop in is $1279 I had another board member tell me he can sell them to me for that price. It has forged pistons I beam rods and a cast crank. Comes with rings and bearings. And you don't have to clearance the block either with that kit.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: dogdays] #59627 05/21/08 01:14 PM 05/21/08 01:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,288 Stroudsburg, PA Erik OP master
Erik OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,288 Stroudsburg, PA	I am not familiar w/ the EQ heads - I'll look at them. I also thought $800 was a bit steep for J heads - hence I didn't get them. I have a call into the machine shop to talk cost of what we talked about yesterday as compared to a cast stroker kit. 1970 Challenger Convertible soon to be T/A convertible Contrary to the opinions of some, I am not dumber than I look.

Re: Building a 416 Stroker - Kit question [Re: HotRodDave] #59628 05/21/08 01:18 PM 05/21/08 01:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	Quote: A complete SCAT kit internally balanced and ready to drop in is $1279 I had another board member tell me he can sell them to me for that price. It has forged pistons I beam rods and a cast crank. Comes with rings and bearings. Your 340 if you buy rods SCAT I beams or eagle crap $275, forged pistons $400 Balance crank $150 rings and bearings $200 you are over $1000, you can sell your 340 crank for $150 all day long and make up all the differance. Unless you are class limited it makes no sense. Also don't pay $800 for iron heads unless they are fully ported by a pro with stainless valves and good springs. If they are just plain old rebuilt no more than $300. I do agree about the EQ heads being a real good value. Clearwatercylinderhead on e-bay sells some with 2.02 valves and good springs for $475each http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-EQ-MO...emZ370052320832 They should make as much power (mabey a few more) as eddys and save almost $500 If they make 10 more HP they will take care of the weight differance. call these guys http://www.cmengines.com/ they quoted me $425 for EQ 318B's, using chevy valves .1" longer than stock and springs good for .550" lift with a hydraulic roller cam... 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: Building a 340 - Various Buildup Questions [Re: Erik] #59629 05/21/08 02:52 PM 05/21/08 02:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,288 Stroudsburg, PA Erik OP master
Erik OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,288 Stroudsburg, PA	I found another set of 340 J heads that have been redone/pocketed/ported/etc for $650 here on Moparts. That sounds like a better price. 1970 Challenger Convertible soon to be T/A convertible Contrary to the opinions of some, I am not dumber than I look.

Re: Building a 340 - Various Buildup Questions [Re: Erik] #59630 05/21/08 03:04 PM 05/21/08 03:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington	Quote: I found another set of 340 J heads that have been redone/pocketed/ported/etc for $650 here on Moparts. That sounds like a better price. Yes, $650.00 for a pocket ported set of fresh J heads with a good set of valves and springs sounds about right. Keep in mind that your short block is the foundation of your engine, putting money in your short block now is the way to go, you won't see a bigger gain from a street small block than building a stroker. If you ever want step up to a better flowing set of heads down the road it's an easy bolt on change, nothing as involved as changing the stroke of your engine. Build the stroker low end now, use whatever the best set of heads and other accessories that you can afford, and make upgrades later as budget allows. Don't forget, a good set of J (or any 915 heads) will make very decent power, they just don't make as much as some other choices that can cost allot more.

Re: Building a 340 - Various Buildup Questions [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #59631 05/21/08 03:18 PM 05/21/08 03:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND 69Cuda340S master
69Cuda340S master Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND	The Scat kit I am getting comes with KB745 forged step dish pistons: http://kb-silvolite.com/forged.php?action=details&P_id=325 If you run them with open chamber J heads your compression will be about 9.4-9.5 to 1 which will work good for pump gas. Get the block machined so the quench pad is at zero deck and the dish portion is below deck. Then later you could switch to Edelbrock closed chamber heads for 10:1 compression pump gas motor. Like Harms said, if the budget is tight put the money in the short block so that high flow closed chamber heads can be put on later when more funds become available.

Re: Building a 340 - Various Buildup Questions [Re: 69Cuda340S] #59632 05/21/08 03:42 PM 05/21/08 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,288 Stroudsburg, PA Erik OP master
Erik OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,288 Stroudsburg, PA	OK - you guys talked me into it & I just got off the phone w/ the machine shop. I will build the 416 stroker and start w/ a set of ported stock heads. I now need to decide on the kit for my build. I mentioned Scat again and he didn't seem to put up too much of a fight. He talked about having to do pan rail clearance w/ the kits he has used before. Am I correct in that the Scat rods don't need to have the rail cleared? 1970 Challenger Convertible soon to be T/A convertible Contrary to the opinions of some, I am not dumber than I look.

Re: Building a 340 - Various Buildup Questions [Re: Erik] #59633 05/21/08 04:06 PM 05/21/08 04:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND 69Cuda340S master
69Cuda340S master Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND	Quote: OK - you guys talked me into it & I just got off the phone w/ the machine shop. I will build the 416 stroker and start w/ a set of ported stock heads. I now need to decide on the kit for my build. I mentioned Scat again and he didn't seem to put up too much of a fight. He talked about having to do pan rail clearance w/ the kits he has used before. Am I correct in that the Scat rods don't need to have the rail cleared? Its not a chevy or a ford so no pan rail clearance is needed. Typically on a SB mopar you will need to notch the bottom of the cylinders if you use stock rods and some other rods. The Scat I-beam rods, which are forged, use ARP cap screws which are real low profile so no cylinder bore notching is needed. So the answer is no notching is needed anywhere but check it anyway. I called Scat a few weeks back and they tell me they guaranty the bearing clearances and balance of their kits. I am going pay more to have my engine shop go over all of it and double check it anyway. They have an online catalog: http://www.scatenterprises.com/

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