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Re: Realistic Look At Shelf Stock Piston Offerings
[Re: Discoquik]
#590794
01/25/10 03:37 PM
01/25/10 03:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,926
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,926
S.E. Michigan
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5.7 and 6.1 pistons that can be used with factory connecting rods would be nice.
It's great to offer the choices for generic rods that are already there, but there's nothing available for a straight replacement.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Realistic Look At Shelf Stock Piston Offerings
[Re: Discoquik]
#590796
01/26/10 02:21 AM
01/26/10 02:21 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Quote:
With all the talk of what, where, and who's piston to use, some input from the masses might be good to hear on this forum.
With more people moving to E85 maybe it's time to dust off the plans for some domed pistons. The catalogs are full of flat and dished pistons but what if you actually want some compression? All the high compression pistons seem to be gone.
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Re: Realistic Look At Shelf Stock Piston Offerings
[Re: Discoquik]
#590797
01/26/10 09:37 AM
01/26/10 09:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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for the lower end small block street builders, how about some cost effective choices for a 318 bore and 3.58 and 4" stroke, a dish in the 15-16cc range would be nice for the 4" stroke, and flat tops for the 3.58" stroke...
Last edited by patrick; 01/26/10 09:42 AM.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Realistic Look At Shelf Stock Piston Offerings
[Re: dOc !]
#590798
01/26/10 10:35 AM
01/26/10 10:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 149
Cleveland Ohio
Discoquik
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 149
Cleveland Ohio
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Quote:
Vic ... LOTS of diff between 10 to 25 sets !! On say on an initial order ...what would be considered a BULK order ?
Now to my Q's ... the weight that you quoted on the 455 Buick 664g ....is that with the pin? The cast 413 is 1025 with ....802 without. The .150 top ring-land spec .... OK on a streeter or maybe even a RV/towing application ? How about that ring groove clearance ?
Oh ... how about the LIFE of diff ring sizes ? ... 1/16 vs 5/64 ....and maybe even dykes rings.
We usually do 40 piece mins on a "bulk" order.
weights are always without pins for our listings.
.150-.180 top lands can be perfectly fine in a non-boosted application. If any spray or boost comes into play we need to tuck it down a bit (late model Hemi....perfect example)
Usually on street motors we like .0013"-.002" or there abouts. Race stuff could be as tight as .0003"-.0007" in Comp,SS/S and Pro Stock applications.
Anymore rings can be as thin as .047"/.047"/3mm oil rings on our common street motors and go 200K+ miles. 5/64 would be used only as a last resort, ring technology has jumped light years ahead of where it was even 5 years ago. 1/16 I would only consider for budget builds and the thickest I would go.
Dykes rings are like pinion snubbers it seems. People still use them but really not necessary if the setup is right. They cost power for sure.
Ideal ring back would be the metric pack with steel top, napier second, and standard tension oil ring. 
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Re: Realistic Look At Shelf Stock Piston Offerings
[Re: Discoquik]
#590800
01/26/10 12:54 PM
01/26/10 12:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
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I think with the new 4.125 small block cranks showing up on shelfs from a couple different brands that a good 18-20CC dish and flat top piston would be a good idea for them. I think they all use chevy journals so they need a small chevy rod witch can be had readily in a 6.125 length and combined with an existing shelf stock (383SBC) piston you can get pretty close to a good combo right there, all you would have to do is a different valve notch angle and a very slight deck height change. I thik that combo might be workable already with a very small cam and really thick head gasket, be nice to not have to do that stuff.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Realistic Look At Shelf Stock Piston Offerings
[Re: HotRodDave]
#590801
01/26/10 01:11 PM
01/26/10 01:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424
Kalispell Mt.
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Forgot to mention bore sizes, a lot of nice magnum 5.9 blocks out there still that can run 4.020 easily and 4.030 360 blocks and either 340 or 360s can be run at 4.060 and like ryan said about the 4.080 and 4.100 bores, even a lot of 318s out there would probably end up with these cranks so a 3.94 bore to cover them would be nice. I would buy a set this week if you had a 4.030 or 3.94 pro true with the 1/16 rings and .927 pin it would be a drop in for the stroke with the 4.125 crank 6.2 SBC rod combo. I would bet ryanJ alone would buy 10 sets a year if they were readily available and resonably priced.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Realistic Look At Shelf Stock Piston Offerings
[Re: BradH]
#590803
01/26/10 07:23 PM
01/26/10 07:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 149
Cleveland Ohio
Discoquik
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 149
Cleveland Ohio
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Quote:
I've heard very good things about Wiseco's machining accuracy and quality control. However, for my upcoming build, here's why I had to go w/ another "budget" piston, rather than your Pro Tru offering for a stock-stroke 440:
- 2.050" compression height --> requires more to be milled off the deck to achieve a zero deck height than the other brands w/ 2.065+" c.h.
- symmetrical valve pockets --> concern for insufficient exhaust valve clearance w/ .600"++ cam as I saw w/ a friend's build using symmetrical-valve-pocket pistons; not an issue w/ dedicated intake & exhaust pockets
- 1.094" pin size only --> no option for the popular .990"-pin rods like I'd already purchased
- 4.350" / 4.375" o.s. only --> my block didn't clean up at .030" and needed to go .040"; I wasn't interested in taking it out any more than the absolute minimum to maintain wall thickness
My point is you might want to reconsider some of the features of existing stocking parts, not just solicit input for new applications.
The deck heights we choose typically allow for a .010" in the hole motor with .005-.007"ish removed for cleanup. You never know what a core has seen in the pastlife. I have to question if you are cutting a block anyway, how is it saving money to limit the amount decked? Decking charges are standard in any shop I use. In my experience .005-.100" is the same price. Just a question that I never understand why guys worry.
The valve pockets in the Pro Tru pistons are adequate in our Volvo which is running a .650"roller with no mods. We built them around Indy and Compuflow type builds. The valve pocket diameters allow for big valves and eliminate left right mixups as well. We are fortunate to be surrounded by a knowledgable bunch on here, but we all have buddies that the generic pockets are a must to avoid bent valves.
The pin diameters/bore sizes are an issue we are looking at, that is why this thread exits. To gauge interest and hopefully put together new numbers AND revise existing parts.
It is very difficult to keep up on ALL our lineup. Until I came on board the focus was on LS GM and Sport Compact just because that is all they had time for. Now I can keep tabs on the domestic "old school" and drag race stuff. This is what spawned the Quick 8 and 16 series parts for the BBC. They needed the most pruning and rework to get them up to par for today's drag world. It's been a great success and won us many championships this past season.
So if possible any and all comments, keep em coming. I WILL put all this down and see what makes sense. I would like to have a nice line up of Mopar parts by falls.
By the way, were are all the Cup motors out there? SB2 Chevies are getting replacement parts weekly. Just curious.... 
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Re: Realistic Look At Shelf Stock Piston Offerings
[Re: Discoquik]
#590805
01/26/10 10:34 PM
01/26/10 10:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,057
Mooresburg, Tn
'72CudaRacer
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,057
Mooresburg, Tn
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Quote:
Quote:
The deck heights we choose typically allow for a .010" in the hole motor with .005-.007"ish removed for cleanup. You never know what a core has seen in the pastlife. I have to question if you are cutting a block anyway, how is it saving money to limit the amount decked? Decking charges are standard in any shop I use. In my experience .005-.100" is the same price. Just a question that I never understand why guys worry.
The problem with cutting a lot off the deck as opposed to taller CH is that some thing else has to be cut, such as intake or intake surface of the heads, just to get the intake on. Then they won't fit something else. And if you get enough cut off then, as some on here can atest to, you a problem with headers fitting.
I just bought pistons, but still had to comprimise because I want a lot of compression. Another thing to concider is that all the aftermarket rods I found that I could afford, were already .008" shorter than stock. 6.760" compared to 6.768". So to use aftermarket rods, you have to cut deck .008" JUST to keep status quo.
Just my 2 cents worth, Brian
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