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Re: torque per cube? [Re: gregsdart] #578447 01/11/10 09:45 PM 01/11/10 09:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,106 Quebec, Canada D Diablo super stock
Diablo super stock D Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,106 Quebec, Canada	I don't have much Dyno info on my 636ci since we only really ran it on there a few times to make sure everything was alright. Made 913 lb-ft@ 5700rpm (dyno didnt pull it down any lower) Made 801 lb-ft@ 7100rpm (didnt run it much higher then that on the dyno) Those numbers come in right around 1.4 per cube

Re: torque per cube? [Re: MuscleMike] #578448 01/11/10 11:57 PM 01/11/10 11:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan B1Fish540 master
B1Fish540 master Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan	Quote: 622", 11.3:1, solid roller, 150psi cranking, 92 speedway premium, 1.4 per cid. B1 heads are odd because they don't flow enough air relative to the port size (or CSA: cross section area) on a big inch combo the port is big enough to support the cid but the flow isn't there to support RPM so the engines tend to nose over early. Mike @MM Thats because they are a wedge and have limited valve size, right? Does the TS also lack flow for big inch motors?

Re: torque per cube? [Re: B1Fish540] #578449 01/12/10 01:08 AM 01/12/10 01:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,616 Riverside, Ca G G_bob master
G_bob master G Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,616 Riverside, Ca	505", 13:1, 4.40" bore x 4.15 stroke, Victor max wedge heads, 2.20"/1.81 valve, 355/284 cfm @ .700. Solid roller 264/268 @ .050, .716 gross lift with 1.7 rockers Super victor intake, 1050-8896 dominator, 2"/3.5" hooker super comp headers Made 683 tq @ 5000, 768 hp @ 6500 If I did my math right, that's 1.35 ft lb per cube. Made 689 and 776 with a 1.5" tapered spacer. 505" on the IMM dyno

Re: torque per cube? [Re: G_bob] #578450 01/12/10 01:44 AM 01/12/10 01:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,025 Las Vegas, NV dodgeboy11 super stock
dodgeboy11 super stock Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,025 Las Vegas, NV	I prefer to build a race engine for hp. If I want to build a tow truck I'll build for torque.

Re: torque per cube? [Re: dodgeboy11] #578451 01/12/10 10:02 AM 01/12/10 10:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc E emarine01 master
emarine01 master E Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc	Peek torque comes @ peek VE, the trick is to keep torque or VE as high as possible past 5250 for as long as possible, than you have a engine that will pull hard thru the power band, the longer the torque curve the higher the power band, the more rotational speed in RPM = more HP<disclaimer> this is the personal opinion of a small block engine guy with just a few years of experience, I could be totally wrong

Re: torque per cube? [Re: dodgeboy11] #578452 01/12/10 10:21 AM 01/12/10 10:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,994 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart OP master
gregsdart OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,994 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	Quote: I prefer to build a race engine for hp. If I want to build a tow truck I'll build for torque. I bet you would agree, that after you reach a very high hp level, you will be looking to enhance every step of the intended rpm range, right? Even if you sacrifice a peak hp spot, but spread out the torque, creating more average hp. My best hp dyno sheet was not my best dyno pull, the one with the best average hp by 3 or 5 hp is my best overall combo. One of my reasons for starting this post was to learn ways to move the torque peak up, as my combo goes fastest with the converter way over the present torque high point. Anything I can do to move that point higher will help, provided I don't loose too much in the process. Last edited by gregsdart; 01/12/10 10:26 AM. 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: blownzoom440] #578453 01/12/10 10:26 AM 01/12/10 10:26 AM
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Re: torque per cue? #578454 01/12/10 10:31 AM 01/12/10 10:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,994 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart OP master
gregsdart OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,994 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	Hemifred, that is some serious power! I notice it makes 1.548 ft lbs per cube at 6,000 rpm. That is about as efficient a motor as I have seen listed so far! 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: torque per cube? [Re: SportF] #578455 01/12/10 12:21 PM 01/12/10 12:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	Quote: I am kinda curious why you would build for torque, assuming a race or even a pleasure motor. If you look at all the torque and horse power figures, torque on a decent motor is always within about 10% of HP. When you get like a nail head Buick that makes 350 HP and 450 pounds of torque, or a diesel that makes 300 hp and 600 ft pounds, well that's either a failure to rev or something else wrong. I have heard guys talk and say it�s the torque that moves the car. Well, would you want 10,000 pounds of torque at 5 RPM? I don't think so, it wouldn't get you anywhere. I'd like to hear other opinions on this, but if it�s a race motor, you want power, don't you? That equates to RPM's and torque put together. Build for horse power and the torque will come. Build for HP and the TQ will come through really low gear ratios and high stall TQ converters, things that make a car less fun to drive. This is why I build big high TQ motors for the street so I don't have to multiply it back into TQ What ever ones end goal is (especially in a drag car is) to put as much TQ to the rear wheels as possible you can get it through high RPM power being multiplied back into TQ or just plain big TQ. It is just that big HP seels motors. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: torque per cube? [Re: HotRodDave] #578456 01/12/10 12:30 PM 01/12/10 12:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	An example of what I was saying would be a 440 makeing 500 hp and 600Lbs TQ you could run it with 3.23 gears and have almost 2000 Lbs TQ at the rear axle(in direct gear for simplicity sake). On the other hand if you had a 302 ferd that made 500 hp you could go just as fast in an other wise equal car but you would only have 411 lbs tq (asumeing same tq per cube) in that motor so you would have to run a 4.86 gear to put the same amount of TQ to the rear axle in direct gear. It is TQ at the rear wheels that gets the car moveing. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: torque per cube? [Re: HotRodDave] #578457 01/12/10 01:02 PM 01/12/10 01:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,212 Minn S SportF pro stock
SportF pro stock S Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,212 Minn	Would you rather have 500 HP and 600 pounds of torque, or 550 HP and 600 pounds of torque? I think you'd want the revs that make that 550. If you do have a combo of 500 HP and 600 pounds of torque there is probably something wrong with the combo and not as effiecent as it should be. I guess I agree its torque at the rear that moves the car, but that torque has to come at RPM's, which is power...which accelerate the car, eh? 5730003-frontright63ply.jpg (60 downloads)

Re: torque per cube? [Re: SportF] #578458 01/12/10 01:31 PM 01/12/10 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc E emarine01 master
emarine01 master E Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc	I think dollars have to be in this equation, Big HP takes more RPM and more money, Unless you have unlimited funds, Engines should be looked @ as a trade between power and dollars, I am a small block guy so I look more @ dyno sheets from builders Like RJ & Brian , Brett and a few others, Some of the art of engine building is to provide good power bands with torque and HP with in the dollars allowed,That being said I wish I had a lot more disposable income

Re: torque per cube? [Re: emarine01] #578459 01/12/10 02:36 PM 01/12/10 02:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,994 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart OP master
gregsdart OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,994 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	"That being said I wish I had a lot more disposable income" Ain't that the truth! Chasing power and et is darned expensive after you get up there a ways! 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: torque per cube? [Re: gregsdart] #578460 01/12/10 02:37 PM 01/12/10 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,994 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart OP master
gregsdart OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,994 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	Hemifred, what are the specs on that 655 hemi? head type? new 99 or second gen? 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: torque per cube? [Re: emarine01] #578461 01/12/10 02:40 PM 01/12/10 02:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,441 Mo. S supercomp master
supercomp master S Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,441 Mo.	Here is two of our dyno sheets. 451 with pocket ported SR Heads and a m1 intake. 278 @ .050 with .660 lift roller. 500 ci B1 fully ported.

Re: torque per cube? [Re: gregsdart] #578462 01/12/10 04:10 PM 01/12/10 04:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan B1Fish540 master
B1Fish540 master Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan	Quote: Hemifred, what are the specs on that 655 hemi? head type? new 99 or second gen? Greg, thats a millinium headed motor. We've discussed DTs hemi on other threads, thats the one Fred now owns, iirc. My 540 with unported Originals has 743 lbs at 4500rpm. Cam is a 280 at .05 endurance roller and CR is 12.5. HP was right at 800/6500rpm. Last edited by Chester Burnett; 01/12/10 04:14 PM.

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: B1Fish540] #578463 01/12/10 04:33 PM 01/12/10 04:33 PM
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Re: torque per cube? #578464 01/12/10 05:03 PM 01/12/10 05:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 293 Kansas City Metro M mbogina enthusiast
mbogina enthusiast M Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 293 Kansas City Metro	The current crop of Comp Eliminater and Pro Stock engines have reached a development point that 1.6 Ft Lbs of Torque per Cube and slightly over 2.6 HP per Cube are realistic goals. Building for Torque vs Horsepower is something of a misnomer, since a big HP number is really just a conversion of a big Torque number at a higher RPM. A rising or dead flat torque curve is the fastest way to increase HP, since the same or higher TQ number at a higher RPM increses the HP equation the quickest. TQ x RPM/5250=HP In order to move the location of the TQ peak and/or increase the TQ output, generally the MCSA will need to increase, it seems to be a defined TQ predicter for a well developed engine. Be a Rebel- Break the Laws of Physics!

Re: torque per cube? [Re: mbogina] #578465 01/12/10 05:55 PM 01/12/10 05:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 232 Lansing, MI M MuscleMike enthusiast
MuscleMike enthusiast M Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 232 Lansing, MI	HP DOES NOT EXIST per sa. Torque is the only measure of rotational energy PERIOD! HP is torque x RPM/5252. Cam profile, head flow, CSA and engine volume (CID) can drastically effect where and when you make torque. HP is only the ability to make torque a RPM. A big head on a small engine will make lousy low speed torque but it will be able to support RPM so it makes HP at a higher RPM. The converse is true if you have a small head on a big engine, it will make gobbs of torque but the small head will not allow the engine to breath at higher RPM to make more HP. Thats why 440's were always perceived as torquey engines. A good amount of cubic inches with a head better suited for 350-370" engine. Class over Mike @MM

Re: torque per cube? [Re: MuscleMike] #578466 01/12/10 06:46 PM 01/12/10 06:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	now can you take the info from the equation and find the CSA or head flow or VE of the enging? Last edited by METAL STORM; 01/12/10 06:49 PM.

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