500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
#566828
12/30/09 12:17 PM
12/30/09 12:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8
Palatka, FL
SW_Florida
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Palatka, FL
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Need help with basic recipe to take a bone stock 1968 440 4-bbl motor and make it produce 500+ horses using only pump gas. The MyMopar.com tech specs say it makes 350 HP as-is for 1968 with 10:1:1 compression, 480 torque. Not bad for today's standards, but I know it is capable of much more. I have a $2500 budget...help me spend it wisely for the most bang for the buck  . Thanks in advance for all the assistance!
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: 67Satty]
#566830
12/30/09 12:43 PM
12/30/09 12:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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my 383 stroker is essentially a .010 under 440 in a low deck block.
here's my parts list:
440 stroke crank
440 rods
short pistons to make it fit the low deck, flat tops with valve reliefs
eddy 84 cc heads for 10.5:1 compression
comp XE-275-HL hydro flat tappet cam--advertised 275 duration at .525 lift, but duration at .050 lift is 235 degrees
performer RPM intake, holly 750HP carb (no choke)
headers
it made 505hp on the engine dyno.
with stock iron heads, you'd be just shy of 500 hp with this combo, but some light port work could get you there.
everything runs on premium pump gas.
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#566831
12/30/09 12:45 PM
12/30/09 12:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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with that $2500 budget, I'd do a blueprint rebuild of the short block, cut the decks to get it at zero deck for better compression. get a decent cam matched to your compression, maybe spend a few bucks on some head work, or buy a set of used heads already done, a good carb, intake, and headers, and you should be there!
Don't skimp on the foundation though...get good machine work done, spend most of your money there. then scrimp and save and shop for deals on used parts to finish the rest of it.
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: SW_Florida]
#566832
12/30/09 12:47 PM
12/30/09 12:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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1 7/8" headers, edelbrock heads, edelbrock RPM intake, edelbrock 800 CFM thunder series AVS, and a comp XE275HL should get you there.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: patrick]
#566833
12/30/09 01:01 PM
12/30/09 01:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
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Manitoba, Canada
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You'll burn through your budget very quickly. You're going to want your block cleaned, bored/honed, then have the deck squared and milled, new cam bearings, I would also put in arp main bolts or studs and have the mains line honed to bring them to spec. Then you'll need your crank ground, rods reconditioned and the whole thing balanced for your new pistons. By the time that's done you'll likely have blown through most of your budget. Then you can do carb, headers, intake and cam but I don't see how you'll have any money left over in that budget for aftermarket heads or head porting. You may just have to do your bottom end and stick with stock heads until you can save up some more money, or save up some extra $ before starting. Realistically you want to have at least 4-5k on hand for a job like this, price will range significantly depending on how much of the disassembly and reassembly you do yourself.
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#566835
12/30/09 03:17 PM
12/30/09 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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Quote:
.030 over 440 10:1, light weight rods, aluminum heads, RPM intake, Mopar 557 solid (or like cam) headers, HOLLEY 850 DP (note a Eddy 800 will not support a 500hp motor w/o modifications) That should get you pretty close.
huh...better not let AndyF's 580HP 406 (.030 over 400) he built with eddie heads, a small roller cam, eddie RPM intake and 800AVS know.....
BTW, an XE275HL is 231@.050
I was assuming you have a solid short/long block that you were going to add onto. if cyl taper is good, you could maybe get away with reringing your shortblock and calling it good.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: SW_Florida]
#566838
12/30/09 04:28 PM
12/30/09 04:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,030
Oregon
AndyF
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Quote:
Yes, it is a clean short block. Date is 3/12/68 on the side and has D 440 HP and looks like a date code on the bottom flat part near distributor. Never bored previously. Has a clean crosshatch in the cylinders, too. The heads were removed and end with 915 with are from 1967, but I guess that doesn't matter as people tell me they are the same as 906 castings.
I got the assembled motor for $300 and I want to fix it up and put it in my '70 D100 stepside.
Those 915 heads are worth some money so if you sell them you'll have more money for your budget. The best bet is a set of good cylinder heads such as the Edelbrock RPMs as well as the proper cam and a good intake manifold. 500 hp is well within reach if you have decent compression. 10:1 would be great but you probably won't get that unless you change pistons.
I wrote an entire book about big block Mopar engines, might be a good place to start if this is your first big block.
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#566839
12/30/09 05:53 PM
12/30/09 05:53 PM
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Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
"huh...better not let AndyF's 580HP 406 (.030 over 400) he built with eddie heads, a small roller cam, eddie RPM intake and 800AVS know....."
stock AVS or thunder...off the shelf w/ off the shelf parts? or is it a custom AVS like the ones the FAST boys run?
You know better than that, it's an OFF THE SHELF Thunder 800. Imagine that ... 
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: JohnRR]
#566840
12/30/09 07:06 PM
12/30/09 07:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,030
Oregon
AndyF
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Not sure why a 800 cfm Edelbrock carb wouldn't be more than enough for 500 hp. That carb should be fine up to about 700 hp where it probably starts to run out of fuel. You can put a fairly big needle and seat into them but at some point they'll run out of fuel.
We did have to put the larger needle and seat into the 800 cfm carb that I ran on my low deck 470 motor. That motor made about 550 hp on the engine dyno and 475 hp at the rear wheels on the chassis dyno. Without the larger needle and seat it would run a little lean at WOT.
Those carbs work great on a 500 hp street driver. The metering rod design lets you quickly dial in the fuel curve which is a nice feature. They do have a couple of weak points but overall they work just fine on an engine like that.
Last edited by AndyF; 12/30/09 07:11 PM.
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: patrick]
#566841
12/30/09 07:16 PM
12/30/09 07:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
Quote:
.030 over 440 10:1, light weight rods, aluminum heads, RPM intake, Mopar 557 solid (or like cam) headers, HOLLEY 850 DP (note a Eddy 800 will not support a 500hp motor w/o modifications) That should get you pretty close.
huh...better not let AndyF's 580HP 406 (.030 over 400) he built with eddie heads, a small roller cam, eddie RPM intake and 800AVS know.....
BTW, an XE275HL is [Email]231@.050[/Email]
I was assuming you have a solid short/long block that you were going to add onto. if cyl taper is good, you could maybe get away with reringing your shortblock and calling it good.
Thanks! I always forget the duration at .050 valve lift, I knew it was around 230-235
and above, that's why I said to spend the money on good machine work and get a good solid well built short block, then scrimp, save, haggle, and bid on some good condition used parts to finish the motor out.
if you're paitent, you can pick up an RPM intake for around $100. used carbs can be had for deep discounts from guys who are either going bigger or changing from a Holley to an Eddy or vice versa, or changing their race car to run on E85/alcohol, etc.
you just gotta be paitent.
remember, you can have it done Fast, Cheap, or Reliable...pick 2 of the 3.
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#566845
12/30/09 10:45 PM
12/30/09 10:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,030
Oregon
AndyF
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Oregon
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Quote:
"Not sure why a 800 cfm Edelbrock carb wouldn't be more than enough for 500 hp. That carb should be fine up to about 700 hp where it probably starts to run out of fuel. You can put a fairly big needle and seat into them but at some point they'll run out of fuel."
not a chance an off the shelf 800 thunder will support 700hp.
Well you must know something that the dyno doesn't know. That is great news since now I can just call you instead of having to pay for dyno time!
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: AndyF]
#566846
12/30/09 11:16 PM
12/30/09 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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I Live Here
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Grand Haven, MI
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well, if you have the capability, measure the cyl wear and taper. if it's within specs, I'd have a machine shop hone it on their machine instead of a dingleball hone or deglazer on a drill (was $3 a hole at the local carquest for me). measure where the pistons are in the hole, if they're down a long ways, maybe deck the block a bit (I'd try stay under .040 decking)...if they're within ~.050 of 0 deck I'd call it good... new rings, bearings, t-chain, oil pump and gaskets, and you should have a pretty decent foundation to start with short block wise for about $500-600. since the pistons don't have valve reliefs you may need to back down on lift a skoash, maybe a comp XE274 or 284 instead of the HL series, they'll have ~ .025"-.040" less lift, and might cost you 20hp or so over the HL cams...
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 500+ horsepower (pump gas) 1968 440 build-up
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#566847
12/30/09 11:17 PM
12/30/09 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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I Live Here
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Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
"huh...better not let AndyF's 580HP 406 (.030 over 400) he built with eddie heads, a small roller cam, eddie RPM intake and 800AVS know....."
stock AVS or thunder...off the shelf w/ off the shelf parts? or is it a custom AVS like the ones the FAST boys run?
OOTB eddie, tuned with a WB......needles, jets, & step up springs probably aren't out of the box, but neither would a holley, unless you got real lucky.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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