id like to get some opinions on this since i know it will only be a matter of time before my t5 (the epitomy of weakness) totally craps out...I want to keep the car stick and my bellhousing is already drilled for the tko...both the 4 speed and the tko are going to require floor mods to make them work (with the tko obviously being more intensive) but what it comes down to is cost and reliability for me...Id like to go tko for the fact that my bell is already setup for it and it has the overdrive, but the 4 speed is cheaper from what it seems. Im hoping that with a few things the car will be in the mid 12's and with the juice deeper in the 11's, so i really need something that will hold up...Id like to know from guys who have used both, stock for stock or faceplated versions of both, which is the better/stronger unit...As nice as the overdrive of the tko is, if im leaving strength on the table, id much rather go with the 4 gear..Also i know there are tko 500/600 versions, but id like to know if there really is that much of a power handling difference between them (as far as i know first gear is different between them and that is all)

Im open to all opinions, so please feel free to share your experiences with either tranny

Well...There's a whole lot of "personal opinion" required to answer your question. So here's mine.

Don't under estimate the strength of the a833 in the cast iron case. Properly prepped, and most will say 600 ft/lbs. If it's going in the Scamp then no floor modifications should be necessary. Liberty Gears can help with faceplating or pro-shift modifications for quick shifting on either transmission. It will still require a clutch to shift.
http://www.libertysgears.com/

Passon performance has some really nice parts to beef it up.

The key to keeping any transmission together lies with the clutch first and formost.

Both transmissions have a major drawback in that they are helical cut gears; less noisy. For real strength and reliability a spur cut gear set is required. G-force, Jerico, and Liberty all make transmissions with spur cut gears.

Now if only someone made a spur cut gear set for the a833 case all these aftermarket 4-speeds would be a second choice.

I've seen a few iron case A833 trannys take a beating for years and years behind big blocks.... they are more stout than many think IMO..

TKOs are good for street driving, but if you're gonna race it, they get hard to shift above 5,000 RPM. mine shifts like butter if I'm driving leisurely, I don't even need the clutch, it just falls into the next gear, but the harder I push it, the harder the shifts get.

There is a difference in the 500/600 besides just gear ratio of 1st gear. the 500 is rated for 550 ft lbs of torque, the 600 is rated for 650 ft lbs of torque. the 600 also gives you 2 OD ratios to chose from. I've got .64 in mine, and I love it. I've got 4.56 gears, yet I can still cruise the highway doing 70+ MPH and my RPMs are right at 2500. (truck tires though...they're 29"tall)

with those gears it must have a real short 1st gear granny gear??

Well, I can at least give you my experience with both over the last 10 years. Started off with the 833 (23 spline)in the belvedere, at the time it was about 4100lbs and drove it across country. Also had about a total of 400 passes and 50k miles. The best time I had was 11.75. Traction was poor (was still trying to figure out the car and still am). I shifted about 6000 with the occasional missed shift. That was frustrating since it always seemed to happen at the wrong time. But still thought of it as a street car. Then decided to put in the TKO600. It was a great street highway trans. Because I was using a 3.55 at the time the .64 to 1 5th gear was only good when you were doing 65 & above, I wished I had gone to a higher ratio 5th. Also had several hundred passes with that trans, but for me shifting above 5800 was iffy (again, also always happened at the wrong time). The best time I had with that trans was 11.30 (there were other changes). I twisted 2 slip yokes, cracked the main case, cracked the tail shaft housing. Other stick racers kept telling me to get a real racing transmission, but no, I was going to make it work. Had it proshifted. Worked great for about 50 passes then grenaded 3rd gear. Fixed that went about 50 passes & grenaded 3rd gear. OK, get slipper clutch, went 50 passes and grenaded 3rd gear....Got Jerico.
Well my opinion is that the 833 iron case is stronger than the AL case of the TKO. One thing to remember with the 833 is that many of us are trying to abuse them like they are new when gears/countershaft, etc. are 40 years old. You can now get new gears (Passon & others) or have old gears magnafluxed and replace as required. The TKO was a great street/highway trans, and I think good as a occasional strip trans (depending on your goals). The 833 I think will take more abuse.
If racing is the primary goal, go Jerico.
Hope this helps
Greg

Saw your car and met you at Indy several years ago when you had the TKO. Very nice car and an excellent job of driving a manual trans on the strip. I agree with your assessment. 833 is a little better drag race transmission than the TKO, but neither is a true race transmission.

Passon sells an overdrive gearset for the 833. You get your overdrive and new not 4 decade old guts. But really to do deep 11's in a 71 scamp isn't going to require all that much as compared to doing upper 10's in a 4000lb B body.

Hey Guys, i appreciate all the feedback so far...yes it will be going into my scamp roughly around 3400lb car i would say...First thing i would do with either tranny is get a adjustable clutch, since i have heard from many the life of the tranny greatly depends on the clutch, so if im gonna spend the money on a good tranny im gonna do a good clutch...Overdrive isnt a nescessity- when i built my car i was little confused in my goals i think and since it will be seeing so much street use the overdrive was very very tempting (especially since gas is expensive and my wallet is thin) but now ive come to realize reliability and strength are more important...I wanna be able to beat on the car and not worry about it breaking. Realistically, if my car sees low 11's it will be on the juice, and low 11's will probably keep me pretty happy..If i can get a tranny to live behind that then i feel my goal would have been achieved

I personally have thought the 833 would be the better drag racing tranny choice, but you guys bring up good points about them being old and worn out, so i would probably have liberty freshen up the gears/ replace and faceplate as well all at once...but then theres the debate of whether or not i need an 18 or 23 spline tranny and such...When it comes to tko's though, i know that once they are faceplated high rpm shifting becomes a breeze, so im not too concerned about that (some even say high rpm shifting is fine, so its hard to say i guess)

either way, you guys are bringing up alot of good points and i appreciate it...I know one day im gonna have to go with a jerico or g-force tranny, but id like to think those days are far off lol...keep the experiences coming!

Thanks!

Jamie Passon is also working on a 5 speed tranny that will bolt into an old mopar with no mods....might want to contact him, or wait a little longer until it comes out.

Now if only someone made a spur cut gear set for the a833 case all these aftermarket 4-speeds would be a second choice.

---

Now that would be a seller.

I do believe there is a tranny out that is called tranzilla that is a tremec style good for 1200hp

Jamie has already hinted at how much that tranny would be and there is no way i would pay that much for it without having straight cut gears and being stronger than stock....like i said, fabrication isnt an issue really as i done quite a bit on my car and its nothing i cant tackle...Im just more concerned with durability than anything else when dumping the clutch at 4k and powershifting every gear...overdrive is nice, but you pay a premium for it obviously...im also waiting to hear how well that new mcleod unit turns out to be, but i dont really have high hopes for it

http://www.rsgear.com/

This was the one i mentioned...

I have had now TKO 600 for 4 years. First year it was stock and it was impossible to do high speed shifting.(Over 6000 rpm) then i ordered face plate kit and i could make high rpm shifts but i broke 3gear.(Too much clutch)
Then i change to adjustable clucth with less base pressure and Ram single sintered iron disc.Now it has went two summers no problems.My car weights 3800lbs and engine gives with sray 780hp and 1100Nm torgue.
I like the 5gear with 4.30 rear and 29 tires rpms at 60mph are 2100-2300.
Here is video of my car when it had too much clucth.
Regards Mika
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7-Sf2yGRyk

that wagon is SICK!!! what are you launching at and shifting at? and what e/t would she run? (sorry im not too good at predicting) I know faceplating would really help either tranny and id probably faceplate either one before i even put it in for the first time and just be done with it

My launch rpm is 2500-3500 cause of poor traction on surface (old airfield) Shift rpm is 6300-6600.
Best it so far is 10.82 with 212kmh. face plate works wery well and you dont need to maintenance so often. Clutch is the most important thin. it took me several clutch to find working clutch to drive on street and race with it.
Regards Mika

what clutch in it now?