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Re: 1 more time on a body rack and pinion !!!!!!! [Re: AAR-B4] #565966
01/05/10 08:00 PM
01/05/10 08:00 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

Here is my fix for the Ackerman issue caused by swapping the ball joints. I have cut the steering arm from the ball joint then made the new steering arm that bolts on using longer ball joint bolts. This arm moves the tie rod joint the same distance outside the ball joint as it was inside (stock rear steer).
Hard to describe in words. We'll see how it works about March?








IMO, This is the Correct way to Fix Akerman. I too was told it was All in the Balljoint. Not with the A body.

I started my rack swap using the Flipped balljoint/steering arms Based on a article/advice from Chuck Senatore and had the Ackerman problems.

So I flipped them back cut off the arms and duplicated the stock steering tierod positions on my new front steer arms and Guess what.

Even with the correctly mounted ball jounts the Ackerman problem was still there. So it cant be just the balljoint.IMO


Like Race8x98 states for Ackerman to work, on a rear steer the outer tierod is mount inside or torwards the center of the car of both Ball joints. As the factory did it.

With a front steer it needs to be opposite of that with the outer tierod mount outboard or torwards the tire of the balljoint.


If you just Flip your Balljount steering arms you will have Ackerman. You will have Reverse Akerman witch is why it gives so many trouble.

IMO you need to at least bend the outer tierod mounts parralel or striaght in line with the ball joints centerline. Like in Freds Pics!

That should give you 0 Ackerman, Far better then Reverse Ackerman.


On pic two of Mike S post of the old Prostock car. It shows the tierod mount torwards the tire outboard of the balljoint centerline. That car should have correct Ackerman.


Further, On a race car do we Really have to have ackerman while racing Straight.

In short No, lots of guys are running with reverse Ackerman and living with its problems. but at a minimum I suggest getting it down to at least 0

I could be all wrong about the above, but after years of trying to understand how to fix ackerman on a front steer , its what ive come up with. mike.

Last edited by Sport440; 01/05/10 08:04 PM.
Re: 1 more time on a body rack and pinion !!!!!!! [Re: Sport440] #565967
01/05/10 08:40 PM
01/05/10 08:40 PM
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SW Ohio
AAR-B4 Offline
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Dead on with a zero Sport440.
The attached drawing shows the Ackerman geometry better than we can put it in words.

Re: 1 more time on a body rack and pinion !!!!!!! [Re: AAR-B4] #565968
01/05/10 08:56 PM
01/05/10 08:56 PM
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Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Quote:

Dead on with a zero Sport440.
The attached drawing shows the Ackerman geometry better than we can put it in words.




Don't limit the geometry to just basic Ackeman side to side but make all up and down travel follows the same plane or as near the same as possible.Or limit the travel. Uneven sweep travels will change alignment.

Re: 1 more time on a body rack and pinion !!!!!!! [Re: AAR-B4] #565969
01/05/10 09:43 PM
01/05/10 09:43 PM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Quote:

Dead on with a zero Sport440.
The attached drawing shows the Ackerman geometry better than we can put it in words.




Flip the steering bar to the front

Re: 1 more time on a body rack and pinion !!!!!!! [Re: B G Racing] #565970
01/05/10 10:04 PM
01/05/10 10:04 PM
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Lima, Peru
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why would you get undesireable ackerman only when backing up and not when going forward???

I guess ackerman would only be noticeable when turning the car, not when going straight???

Re: 1 more time on a body rack and pinion !!!!!!! [Re: AAR-B4] #565971
01/05/10 10:20 PM
01/05/10 10:20 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Nice illustration Race8x98

The Best ive seen and easist to understand on my Akerman problem fix adventure. Thanks!

Bob George, your right! ackerman isnt the only Geometry issue that needs to be addressed.

Getting the tierod sweep to match the combined upper and lower control arm sweep through out its range of motion is another.

Tierod length, rack height,rack position, working with imaginary lines etc.

The Easy part of a rack and pinion install is bolting one in. Making it work correctly is a whole different ball game.

Race8x98,s illustration IMO has the Ackerman part covered. In the past ive seen people post about Some imaginary lines back to the center of the axel. Couldnt make heads or tails out of it. Today , I understand it completely mike again, thanks Race

Re: 1 more time on a body rack and pinion !!!!!!! [Re: Sport440] #565972
01/06/10 01:18 PM
01/06/10 01:18 PM
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talk to someone who bought a dare racing front end with the side to side swapped ball joints




WAXER
Re: 1 more time on a body rack and pinion !!!!!!! [Re: QWK_ENUF] #565973
01/06/10 07:16 PM
01/06/10 07:16 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

talk to someone who bought a dare racing front end with the side to side swapped ball joints








Tommy, Yes, the Flipped ball joints reverse Ackerman. So it would work like

Also I wouldnt compare the same ball joint mounted on a Stock K frame vs one that was mounted on one made by dare.

Did you misinterpret something I said mike

Re: 1 more time on a body rack and pinion !!!!!!! [Re: Sport440] #565974
01/06/10 09:23 PM
01/06/10 09:23 PM
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mike

i only clicked on the last post which was yours , nothing directed to or at you personally

only making a post to point out that swapping the ball joints side to side won't work and why

heating and bending them might be better but i wouldn't know



WAXER
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