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Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: S/ST 3040] #550915 12/13/09 01:03 PM 12/13/09 01:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,443 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,443 Kalispell Mt.	If what you seem to be finding is true (I beleive it is) then it would throw out the theory that strokeing an otherwise identicle engine only increases TQ. We have all heard that over and over "longer stroke only increases TQ not HP" but I cry foul, a bigger motor at the same RPM is going to suck in more air because of the greater depression in the cylinder and more air means more fuel more fuel means bigger bang. The 73 340 and 74 360 are good evidance of this, same cam, heads, intake, almost identicle bore and compression ratio... the 360 makes more TQ AND HP. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: HotRodDave] #550916 12/13/09 03:19 PM 12/13/09 03:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,019 Finland mafo super stock
mafo super stock Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,019 Finland	361" .730 lift 345cfm@ .700 9.39/143mph/2900# 351" .915 lift 400cfm@ .900 9.22/150mph/2850# -65 Valiant,420", all motor,2700#, dot tires, 8,42 @ 160,2

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: mafo] #550917 12/13/09 03:26 PM 12/13/09 03:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere S S/ST 3040 OP master
S/ST 3040 OP master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere	Quote: 361" .730 lift 345cfm@ .700 9.39/143mph/2900# 653 HP 1.89 HP per CFM Quote: 351" .915 lift 400cfm@ .900 9.22/150mph/2850# 740 HP 1.85 HP per CFM

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: S/ST 3040] #550918 12/13/09 04:28 PM 12/13/09 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	Quote: Scott, if I had to guess, I'd say I've read that as many times as you have. I'm not comparing a S/S head or engine to anything here. I'm just asking for examples for my own interpretation of some general data. If I wanted to start a pissing match about this, I could post on that thread on SpeedTalk and start calling people liars. That's not my intention nor am I saying I know anymore than anyone here. This may not prove very useful, in the end but, I'll decide whether it's relevant. I know you're not talking about SS engines. But just because it's not a NHRA SS motor, doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to get the port size/shape right. Sorry, I didn't intend to start a pissing match at all. That was definately not my point. If anything I was just pointing out what all of the posted information seems to point at...CFM doesn't corrolate very well to HP.

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: HotRodDave] #550919 12/13/09 04:34 PM 12/13/09 04:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Quote: If what you seem to be finding is true (I beleive it is) then it would throw out the theory that strokeing an otherwise identicle engine only increases TQ. I look at it a little differently... For any given CFM, a larger engine is going to be able to utilize the flow more easily than a smaller engine. Another way to explain this is the smaller engine can make the same HP, but it's going to need to be much more optimized to take full advantage of the heads. Just my thought on the subject.

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: S/ST 3040] #550920 12/13/09 06:14 PM 12/13/09 06:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 672 Keysville, VA D drag440 mopar addict
drag440 mopar addict D Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 672 Keysville, VA	This is a interesting topic for me also because I think I put too much head on my wifes dragster this year. The engine in the dragster is a 499 with 68cc fully ported -1's, 3X intake, 1050 and a 278/282 X 682/682 cam with 1.6 rockers. Last year it had the same short block but with 75cc pocket ported SR's, -2 with a adapter and 1.5 rockers. Last year and this year the car ran a best of 8.01 in the 1/4. I did not pick up anything! I think it might be too much top end for 499 c.i. and no air speed. I am putting the -2 back on now and will try it again next year.

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: S/ST 3040] #550921 12/13/09 07:27 PM 12/13/09 07:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,178 Indy FlyFish super stock
FlyFish super stock Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,178 Indy	LIFT--IN/EX .100"--63.0/NA .200"--137.9/98.2 .300"--191.6/141.9 .400"--243.8/171.9 .450"--262.2/181.5 .500"--281.3/188.4 .550"--289.8/193.8 .600"--292.9/196.6 .650"--292.9/199.9 .700"--292.9/202.1 Cam: small solid roller 248/254 degrees w/ ~.580 lift 3250#'s, 10.8:1 compression, 11.1 @ 120 mph. 67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: dizuster] #550922 12/13/09 08:17 PM 12/13/09 08:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere S S/ST 3040 OP master
S/ST 3040 OP master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere	I know CFM isn't everything but, like I've told other people, who tell me that......When is the last time you saw a port that had the correct size and correct shape, that doesn't flow good air? We all strive to get all we can, for what we have. This is just some information to ponder. I'm open to ideas, too.

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: FlyFish] #550923 12/13/09 08:19 PM 12/13/09 08:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere S S/ST 3040 OP master
S/ST 3040 OP master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere	Quote: LIFT--IN/EX .100"--63.0/NA .200"--137.9/98.2 .300"--191.6/141.9 .400"--243.8/171.9 .450"--262.2/181.5 .500"--281.3/188.4 .550"--289.8/193.8 .600"--292.9/196.6 .650"--292.9/199.9 .700"--292.9/202.1 Cam: small solid roller 248/254 degrees w/ ~.580 lift 3250#'s, 10.8:1 compression, 11.1 @ 120 mph. 432 HP 1.53 HP per CFM Last edited by S/ST 3040; 12/13/09 08:51 PM.

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: S/ST 3040] #550924 12/13/09 08:46 PM 12/13/09 08:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,314 Charlotte, NC L LSP pro stock
LSP pro stock L Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,314 Charlotte, NC	Quote: Quote: LIFT--IN/EX .100"--63.0/NA .200"--137.9/98.2 .300"--191.6/141.9 .400"--243.8/171.9 .450"--262.2/181.5 .500"--281.3/188.4 .550"--289.8/193.8 .600"--292.9/196.6 .650"--292.9/199.9 .700"--292.9/202.1 Cam: small solid roller 248/254 degrees w/ ~.580 lift 3250#'s, 10.8:1 compression, 11.1 @ 120 mph. 532 HP 1.53 HP per CFM Quote: All @ 28" .100" - 65 .200" - 145 .300" - 214 .400" - 258 .500" - 290 .600" - 299 .700" - 301 245*/.630" hyd. roller 3400 lbs. 125.62 mph 520 HP 1.76 HP per CFM HP on one of these is off?

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: LSP] #550925 12/13/09 08:53 PM 12/13/09 08:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere S S/ST 3040 OP master
S/ST 3040 OP master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere	Oops.....I fixed it. I never claimed to be perfect.

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: LSP] #550926 12/13/09 08:58 PM 12/13/09 08:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Quote: Quote: LIFT--IN/EX .100"--63.0/NA .200"--137.9/98.2 .300"--191.6/141.9 .400"--243.8/171.9 .450"--262.2/181.5 .500"--281.3/188.4 .550"--289.8/193.8 .600"--292.9/196.6 .650"--292.9/199.9 .700"--292.9/202.1 Cam: small solid roller 248/254 degrees w/ ~.580 lift 3250#'s, 10.8:1 compression, 11.1 @ 120 mph. 532 HP 1.53 HP per CFM Quote: All @ 28" .100" - 65 .200" - 145 .300" - 214 .400" - 258 .500" - 290 .600" - 299 .700" - 301 245*/.630" hyd. roller 3400 lbs. 125.62 mph 520 HP 1.76 HP per CFM HP on one of these is off? The first one is off.... should be 439 hp... 1.47 HP per cfm Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/14/09 01:00 AM.

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: MR_P_BODY] #550927 12/14/09 12:44 AM 12/14/09 12:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,845 Bitopia J jcc If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc If you can't dazzle em with diamonds.. J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,845 Bitopia	Not sure how this relates, and none of the recent PRI posts mentioned it, but there was a small exhibitor at PR that had a NA EFI displayed 4 banger 16V motor he claimed was outputing 187hp/liter, no VCT, and nothing exotic except for the intake port design , he called "dual swirl port". Seemed pretty impressive to me. I picked up his 6? page white paper, pretty heady and kinda neat. Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: MR_P_BODY] #550928 12/14/09 12:52 AM 12/14/09 12:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,449 nc E earthmover top fuel
earthmover top fuel E Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,449 nc	3200 lbs 340 comp soild 200 136/94 300 194/118.5 400 239/131 500 240/139 600 /142 @28 244/252@50 520in/540ex 11.86 @ 111.48 11.1 comp

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: earthmover] #550929 12/14/09 08:41 AM 12/14/09 08:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere S S/ST 3040 OP master
S/ST 3040 OP master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere	Quote: 3200 lbs 340 comp soild 200 136/94 300 194/118.5 400 239/131 500 240/139 600 /142 @28 244/252@50 520in/540ex 11.86 @ 111.48 11.1 comp 342 HP 1.425 HP per CFM

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: jcc] #550930 12/14/09 08:46 AM 12/14/09 08:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere S S/ST 3040 OP master
S/ST 3040 OP master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere	JC, if that's N/A, that's pretty impressive, considering that equates to 1010 HP for a 340" or 1349 HP for 440".

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: S/ST 3040] #550931 12/14/09 09:33 AM 12/14/09 09:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 698 Alberta Canada E Edge mopar
Edge mopar E Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 698 Alberta Canada	305 CFM @700 Indy SR MW 2900 lbs 135 MPH 9.85 @ 4500 feet .735 total lift engine dynoed around 665 hp 76 Duster work in progress

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: Edge] #550932 12/14/09 09:36 AM 12/14/09 09:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere S S/ST 3040 OP master
S/ST 3040 OP master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere	Quote: 305 CFM @700 Indy SR MW 2900 lbs 135 MPH 9.85 @ 4500 feet .735 total lift engine dynoed around 665 hp 548 HP 1.796 HP per CFM I'm not sure how bad the 4500 ft. really hurt it.

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: S/ST 3040] #550933 12/14/09 11:50 AM 12/14/09 11:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,646 Ontario,Canada F firefighter3931 top fuel
firefighter3931 top fuel F Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,646 Ontario,Canada	Here are a few more to look at ; same motor with different induction packages. The build ; 446ci (10.5:1) stock rods/2355 SpeedPro slugs Comp Solid 264@.050/.580 lift/109 lsa Stage 1 E-heads by Dwayne 292@.550/297@.600 These #'s are from Dwayne's Dyno (1) 535hp with Street Dominator/850 carb/1in open spacer. Best performance with this combo : 11.68@116.25 in good air. Raceweight 4100...not enough stall or gear for best ET...going out the back at 5500. (2) 560hp with Victor and Dwayne's race carb...everything else the same. This intake/carb package was never run in the car....just a test to see "what if". Ron

Re: Cylinder Heads and Horsepower [Re: firefighter3931] #550934 12/14/09 11:59 AM 12/14/09 11:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere S S/ST 3040 OP master
S/ST 3040 OP master S Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere	Looks like about 495 HP Moroso Power/Speed calculater only goes to 4000 lbs. Probably 520 HP and 118 MPH if you had run it with Dwayne's induction.

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