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Re: Door VIN Decal Inquiry
[Re: scatcity]
#535478
11/27/09 12:42 AM
11/27/09 12:42 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Hi Thomas,
Some of the first VIN labels that were made in August or September of 1969 had the complete months spelled out. Chrysler management became smarter as time progressed and started to abbreviate the months from alpha to numeric characters. This saved considerable typing time for the person who was responsible for VIN data entries. Instead of typing out 8 to 9 digits, the months would be entered using just one or two numeric characters. In mid March of the 1970 model year, they further condensed the data entries by eliminating the first two digits of the year. Instead of 1970, the date simply became 70. Think of the time they saved from having to type SEPTEMBER - 1969 versus 9 - 1969! While this might seem to be trivial in the overall scheme of things, significant time WAS saved when entering thousands and thousands of vehicles per year! Employees were suppose to stop the alpha month printing in August of 1969. This made me question why some were still printed in September of 1969. I was told that when other employees filled in for those who normally performed this data entry task (vacations, sick leave, etc....) they may not have been aware of the new process. A few decals still made it through assembly until the temporary employee was made aware of the changes. I have made hundreds of these items and have never seen an original sample that spelled the names out after September. Of all the original September VIN decals, I have seen a total of four with the month spelled out. I hope this clears up some of the oddities regarding printed VIN dates.
DW
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Re: Door VIN Decal Inquiry
[Re: Finoke]
#535481
12/18/09 09:19 PM
12/18/09 09:19 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Great info guys!
Hi Tom,
I do not want to come across as argumentative but no assembly plant EVER had an engineering spec regarding alpha characters versus numeric. A previous post stated that the month was spelled out from the beginning of the 70 model year (August 1969) until mid September. I have original documented pictures in my data base that verify a very, very, very, very RARE number of vehicles that used the month spelled out. The VIN program was written into law in 1966 but did not make it into production until 1969. The "A pillar" safety decals were the preclude to these VIN labels but did not incorporate the actual VIN number. (Vehicle Safety Act 1966; NHTSA Section 567.) Chrysler started using these decals on their Daytona vehicles in June of 1969. They used a type written manual font because the vehicle was pulled from regular sequential assembly line production. ANY car that was pulled from of the assembly line for ANY reason ended up with a typed font. (We have every manual font Chrysler ever used.)
The month being spelled out stopped somewhere in the first few days of production. You will still find the month spelled out later because "floaters" would fill in for regular personnel who performed this job. If these floaters worked with this process in the beginning and came back a few days or weeks later, they would start typing just as they had done a few days/weeks prior. A supervisor would realize they were not informed of the new format and would instruct the "temp" of the new procedure. A few "spelled date" VINs inadvertently made it out before the process could be corrected. That is as simple as it is and was verified by an employee who performed this task at the St. Louis assembly plant. If requested, I would be happy to post numerous St. Louis original VIN scans with the August and September month listed numerically. We have thousands of documented original VIN decals dating from 6/69 to present day.
(Its what we specialize in! www.ecsvin.com)
DW
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Re: Door VIN Decal Inquiry
#535484
12/18/09 11:41 PM
12/18/09 11:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,127
Ramona, CA
NicksGarage
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,127
Ramona, CA
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Quote:
We have every manual font Chrysler ever used.
Does this mean that you can properly reproduce mine now? A few years back you couldn't match the typeface used as mine is special ordered car.
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Re: Door VIN Decal Inquiry
[Re: NicksGarage]
#535485
12/21/09 01:04 PM
12/21/09 01:04 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
We have every manual font Chrysler ever used.
Does this mean that you can properly reproduce mine now? A few years back you couldn't match the typeface used as mine is special ordered car.
Hi Nick,
Yes we carry your style font but sometimes have trouble matching every variation within a family of fonts. It is similar to claiming you own every brand of vehicle manufactured but not every model within those brands. Today, I made up your VIN decal with three different but similar family fonts. The first font (Sample A) is Prestige Pica 72. The second font (Sample B) is Large Elite 72. The last example is your exact style font. It is hard to match these perfectly because our labels are made on the same style IBM machine that was used back in the sixties and seventies. The employee/person typing these "custom" decals had to manually feed the blank label in the machine and type in the data. We do the same thing! Imagine positioning label stock in an electric typing machine and matching the horizontal and vertical kerning of a 40 year old decal. It is almost impossible to line up all the characters perfectly as they relate to the original.
Notice the two mistakes that occurred when they manufactured your VIN label. The dash between your manufacturing date was double struck and an additional dash was inadvertently placed at the end of your VIN number.
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Re: Door VIN Decal Inquiry
[Re: scatcity]
#535487
12/21/09 04:25 PM
12/21/09 04:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,519
Buffalo, NY U.S.A.
MrNormsTA
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,519
Buffalo, NY U.S.A.
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Quote:
Is that a typo as well on your sticker Nick ? Shouldn't the 6th character be a number 1 as opposed to an upper case "I" ? BTW Dave nice work.
Ma Mopar was famous for losing the 1's and using I's instead. Had a car with the same thing and a couple cars with I's on the body stampings.
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Re: Door VIN Decal Inquiry
#535490
12/21/09 06:28 PM
12/21/09 06:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,127
Ramona, CA
NicksGarage
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,127
Ramona, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
We have every manual font Chrysler ever used.
Does this mean that you can properly reproduce mine now? A few years back you couldn't match the typeface used as mine is special ordered car.
Hi Nick,
Yes we carry your style font but sometimes have trouble matching every variation within a family of fonts. It is similar to claiming you own every brand of vehicle manufactured but not every model within those brands. Today, I made up your VIN decal with three different but similar family fonts. The first font (Sample A) is Prestige Pica 72. The second font (Sample B) is Large Elite 72. The last example is your exact style font. It is hard to match these perfectly because our labels are made on the same style IBM machine that was used back in the sixties and seventies. The employee/person typing these "custom" decals had to manually feed the blank label in the machine and type in the data. We do the same thing! Imagine positioning label stock in an electric typing machine and matching the horizontal and vertical kerning of a 40 year old decal. It is almost impossible to line up all the characters perfectly as they relate to the original.
Notice the two mistakes that occurred when they manufactured your VIN label. The dash between your manufacturing date was double struck and an additional dash was inadvertently placed at the end of your VIN number.
Except for the "A" missing the serifs it looks right on. Close enough for me. I'll contact you to order it (typos and all). I've not bought anything from you guys before but you have a great reputation. Do I need to send you anything else or just call you? I can wait until after the holidays if needed. Thanks.
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Re: Door VIN Decal Inquiry
[Re: NicksGarage]
#535491
12/21/09 07:11 PM
12/21/09 07:11 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi Nick,
The font has the serif's on the "A' but you just can't see them in the picture. I can guarantee the font is exactly what was on your decal. Call me and you can have all three for the price of one.
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Re: Door VIN Decal Inquiry
[Re: Dingmaster]
#535492
12/21/09 07:22 PM
12/21/09 07:22 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
My 70 Charger has the spelled out "September 1969" on the door decal. It has a SPD of 9/11.
Here is an example with the numeric date. This decal is from a good customer and Mopar enthusiast, John Thayer. I had a lengthy discussion with John today and he was kind enough to let me display his original (September), St. Louis plant VIN decal. I have quite a few from August with the numeric characters but need to conjure up the original photos. For you guys that have the dates spelled out on them, they are actually pretty rare!!
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Re: Door VIN Decal Inquiry
[Re: Dodge Don]
#535494
12/21/09 11:24 PM
12/21/09 11:24 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hello Don, Thank you for the input regarding these VIN labels. It always helps to have as much information as possible.  I am not sure how many vehicles you researched before drawing a conclusion but one thing has to be factored into the equation. Unless a car was pulled from the line (which required a manually typed decal) they were all processed with the sequential, assembly line numbering system. Under the theory you have proposed, the person entering the data would have purposefully typed the numeric style date for certain models, while the Charger would have exclusively used the alpha-numeric dating setup. I have the original engineered drawings for this label and nowhere are there instructions referring to special nomenclature regarding the printed dates. Tomorrow I will post an original VIN from the St. Louis plant, built in August of 1969. I find it highly peculiar that there would have been a mandate that flip flopped the process back and forth contingent on a specific model. Building processes and procedures were meant to be simplified and not complicated. If all of the cars built from August 69 through mid September used this alpha style of dating, where are the large majority of original VINs that display that particular setup? There would have been thousands of vehicles displaying that layout! While I cannot say I have seen every VIN made during that period, I can attest to reproducing/documenting approximately 230 from that time period and only four or five incorporated the style that you have concluded is the rule rather than of the exception. How many Chargers did you research and document to come up with this conclusion?
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