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Re: Ring & Pinion pattern help needed PLEASE!
[Re: 67Charger]
#513984
11/05/09 01:46 AM
11/05/09 01:46 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,579
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,579
Fulton County, PA
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The drive side looks close, the coast side still looks like it wants the pinion moved in a touch. Once you're close, moving the pinion or the backlash .001 or .002 will make a visible difference.I would maybe move the pinion in .001 or .002, keep the BL around .006 to .008, see what that does and work from there. Sometimes you have to find the happy medium. Depends how close to "perfect" you want it. As I've said before, the Strange stuff usually goes together as nice as any of them.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Ring & Pinion pattern help needed PLEASE!
[Re: CRIKEY]
#513987
11/05/09 10:49 AM
11/05/09 10:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Quote:
DUDE you are definately doin it tuff.....I see you havent mentioned weather or not you are loading the gear set when setting the pattern?? I cant see any marks on the spool or ring from a lever or like?
Cuple tips, always clean the paint/paste off the both ring & pinion each time you make a shim or BL change, dont apply to much paste (which you have there)it makes for difficult reading, the extra paste tends to wipe over the tooth & disturbs the pattern.
I've been putting a wrench on a ring gear bolt and using a breaker on the pinion to apply resistance to get the pattern. I'll clean it and try again with less compound on the teeth.
Quote:
I was thinking that quite awhile back that $50 to $100 spent with a reputable mechanic would have been well spent. 
What, and miss all this fun? ...but seriously, I have the tools to do it, and it's only this bad the first time. Lesons learned this time will make the next sets easier and faster. Gotta learn somehow, right? No better way than by doing.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Ring & Pinion pattern help needed PLEASE!
[Re: 67Charger]
#513988
11/05/09 11:14 AM
11/05/09 11:14 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
DUDE you are definately doin it tuff.....I see you havent mentioned weather or not you are loading the gear set when setting the pattern?? I cant see any marks on the spool or ring from a lever or like?
Cuple tips, always clean the paint/paste off the both ring & pinion each time you make a shim or BL change, dont apply to much paste (which you have there)it makes for difficult reading, the extra paste tends to wipe over the tooth & disturbs the pattern.
I've been putting a wrench on a ring gear bolt and using a breaker on the pinion to apply resistance to get the pattern. I'll clean it and try again with less compound on the teeth.
Quote:
I was thinking that quite awhile back that $50 to $100 spent with a reputable mechanic would have been well spent.
What, and miss all this fun? ...but seriously, I have the tools to do it, and it's only this bad the first time. Lesons learned this time will make the next sets easier and faster. Gotta learn somehow, right? No better way than by doing.
We do quite a few and usually get it set with in 3 or 4 resets.The first thing we do is check the carrier bore for proper centerline and then set the correct pinion depth,then we set the carrier shim packs behind the bearing races to get the ring close and backlash.We then install the shims on the carrier in the proper location and recheck and adjust if necessarry.On S-60s we just use a spanner wrench to set the ring gear.
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Re: Ring & Pinion pattern help needed PLEASE!
[Re: 67Charger]
#513989
11/05/09 09:33 PM
11/05/09 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
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Quote:
What, and miss all this fun? ...but seriously, I have the tools to do it, and it's only this bad the first time. Lesons learned this time will make the next sets easier and faster. Gotta learn somehow, right? No better way than by doing.
I hear you Dan...I did my Dana just so I could say I did it. I enjoy this stuff....it would have been cheaper to pay someone for me (opposed to buying the tools, etc)....but I want my car build by ME.
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Re: Ring & Pinion pattern help needed PLEASE!
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#513990
11/06/09 03:46 AM
11/06/09 03:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Attempt 24Moved the pinion .003 deeper. (closer to the axles) Currently at: .032" shim behind driver side carrier bearing .086" shim behind passenger side carrier bearing .043" shim behind the big pinion bearing cup .056" shim between the pinion and small bearing Backlash is at .005" Drive  Coast  What do thes markings mean? I know they should be the piniond depth, but from what point of reference? Ideal seting? what is that? The ones I pulled out had no such markins, so I don't know where it started. 
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Ring & Pinion pattern help needed PLEASE!
[Re: 67Charger]
#513991
11/06/09 07:19 PM
11/06/09 07:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Any last recommendations before I seal it up?
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Ring & Pinion pattern help needed PLEASE!
[Re: VernMotor]
#513993
11/06/09 08:38 PM
11/06/09 08:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Quote:
Looks good to me...them numbers= 1 set is matching number for the the ring gear you will find a set just like it on the ring gear. 2 is pinion depth.
here is a pic hope it works
.. so mine is "NO", as in zero offset, and 011 matching number?
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Ring & Pinion pattern help needed PLEASE!
[Re: VernMotor]
#513997
11/06/09 09:18 PM
11/06/09 09:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
I tell you this. it is way to hard to tell.one thing it is feel thing about how much pressure you use to get that ..pattern. I use a 3ft bar to loan /put pressure to get the pattern.. you can not loan it like it would be in the car. so how do you ask someone how much pressure did you use to get that pattern?..I going to asume he doing this by hand with light pressure. he is not far off. I see them be dead on and the rear end make noise. I see where you think they would make noise and don't..I do this for a living I build at lease one a week..
Jamie,the drive side isn't to bad,but the coast side pattern is not consistent from tooth to tooth and the angle or pitch seems off.I wander if the ring gear is seated on the carrier flange flush or the races seat squarely in all the bores.We like to see a consistent contact patch either in the middle of the tooth or to the lower 2/3 and similar on the drive and coast.Maybe Doctor Diff will chime in.
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Re: Ring & Pinion pattern help needed PLEASE!
[Re: B G Racing]
#514000
11/06/09 09:45 PM
11/06/09 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Quote:
Is the rotation free or is there more drag in some areas,like the ring is moving in and out of the pinion or back and forth? 
Real, new Strange gears from Summit. They were on backorder for a long time. B/L is consistent within <.001 measured at 5 points around the gear. Incinsistencies in pressure is a result of me trying to apply resistance to both the pinion and ring at the same time. I'll try and cycle it again.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Ring & Pinion pattern help needed PLEASE!
[Re: 67Charger]
#514001
11/07/09 02:55 AM
11/07/09 02:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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Alright, I'm convinced not to seal it up yet, but what next? Drive looks good, but I can't find any reference material on what to do with the diagonal coast pattern.
I retorqued the caps to 80 and the ring gear bolts to 110 and ran it again with no change. Rotation is smooth all the way around, and has proper pinion and carrier preloads dragging. I'm using a strap wrench around the spool wedged against the case. It takes about 30 - 40 ft-lb to turn the pinion and slip past the wrench. Pattern is slightly wider, but same position and shape.
Moving the pinion deeper seems to move the drive towards the heel and the coast towards the toe. I don't know if I want to do that...
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Something doesn't quite look right.Who's gear set?New or used? 