"how long can ladder bars be"
#493247
10/10/09 04:19 PM
10/10/09 04:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,992 Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
Mopar Ron
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I am starting a 41 willys sedan gasser project and wanted to know how long I could go with ladder bars,and still have them work. I would like to build this car like mid 60's style with the nose up a little but i plan to run a 493 stroker in it with around 600HP, I want to run 10.0 the car should weight around 2900 lbs I like the looks of these cars below and the ladder bars are much longer than the 30" bars that I have. so could I build something around 40-50" and still have a car that will work???? I know that back in the 60's they were very long but now most are 30"-32" what do you think??? thanks in advance. Ron... I think these are longer than what I want: ![](http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7754/willys999.jpg) these are more of what I think would look right... ![](http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/140/willys588.jpg) ![](http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/60/picture1wcrg.png) MY JUNK as of now ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif) ![](http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/458/37will1.jpg)
Last edited by Mopar Ron; 10/12/09 12:46 PM.
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: Quicktree]
#493249
10/10/09 05:34 PM
10/10/09 05:34 PM
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Anonymous
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Re: chassis guys!!! "how long can ladder bars be"
#493250
10/10/09 05:44 PM
10/10/09 05:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA
bigtimeauto
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S&W race cars sells Gasser bars 42" long.
tell them i sent you 610-948-7303 Ext 116.
BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154
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Re: chassis guys!!! "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: Comp_Chassis]
#493256
10/12/09 12:14 PM
10/12/09 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,992 Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
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Quote:
The shorter the bar the harder the hit on the rear tires, the longer the bar, the softer the hit.
A 4 link is essentially an infinately adjustable ladder bar that allows you to set the intersect point and height almost anywhere.
so Richard, a longer bar will hit softer,Is that bad? is that easier on parts? do I want a hard hit on the tires? say I run a 48" long bar will I be able to get them to work with a 12"x29"tire with a 600hp,2900#,101 wb car????
or should I just go with a 30-32" bar???
sorry for all the questions but I don't want to have to redo the car when its done Ron...
anyone else have an opinion on long bars?
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Re: chassis guys!!! "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: Mopar Ron]
#493257
10/12/09 09:32 PM
10/12/09 09:32 PM
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TrWaters
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I'm going with about 40 inch bars in my Anglia. 90 inch WB.
TR Waters
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Re: chassis guys!!! "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: TrWaters]
#493258
10/12/09 09:39 PM
10/12/09 09:39 PM
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Quote:
I'm going with about 40 inch bars in my Anglia. 90 inch WB.
thats just under 1/2 the wheelbase, I have been thinking about making mine 48" a guy over on the hamb board has 48" bars and says they hook hard Ron...
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Re: chassis guys!!! "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: Mopar Ron]
#493259
10/13/09 12:23 AM
10/13/09 12:23 AM
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MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm going with about 40 inch bars in my Anglia. 90 inch WB.
thats just under 1/2 the wheelbase, I have been thinking about making mine 48" a guy over on the hamb board has 48" bars and says they hook hard Ron...
If you can figure out the CG(center of gravity) of the car you want to pick up at that point... if you go forward of that point it will try to lift the front (wheel stand) ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif)
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Re: chassis guys!!! "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#493260
10/13/09 12:44 PM
10/13/09 12:44 PM
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codfish
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Guys are ladder bars considered "traction bars" in the eyes of IHRA/NHRA techs? Reason I ask is because I seem to remember seeing in the IHRA rule book that traction bars can be no longer than half the cars wheelbase. Perhaps they mean the "slapper bar" type. Hopefully it doesn't pertain to you Ron, but something to consider maybe. Anyhow, cool project as usual ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbs.gif) codfish
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Re: chassis guys!!! "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#493262
10/14/09 12:10 PM
10/14/09 12:10 PM
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dizuster
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Quote:
If you can figure out the CG(center of gravity) of the car you want to pick up at that point... if you go forward of that point it will try to lift the front (wheel stand)
Not quite. Because of the weight transfer during acceleration, it doesn't quite work that way.
If you were to draw a horizontal line from the CG forward, and draw a vertical line from the tire straight up, you will have an point at the intersection. Draw a line from the rear tire contact point through the ladder bar mount. If that line intersects the CG/Front tire point, then the body roll will be neutral.
However if the car is accelerating hard enough, it can still wheelstand (if it hooks).
This is a VERY good website of explination (although it's pretty complicated)
The first page has a lot of ladder bar info on it.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope/
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Re: chassis guys!!! "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: dizuster]
#493263
10/14/09 01:45 PM
10/14/09 01:45 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Quote:
If you can figure out the CG(center of gravity) of the car you want to pick up at that point... if you go forward of that point it will try to lift the front (wheel stand)
Not quite. Because of the weight transfer during acceleration, it doesn't quite work that way.
If you were to draw a horizontal line from the CG forward, and draw a vertical line from the tire straight up, you will have an point at the intersection. Draw a line from the rear tire contact point through the ladder bar mount. If that line intersects the CG/Front tire point, then the body roll will be neutral.
However if the car is accelerating hard enough, it can still wheelstand (if it hooks).
This is a VERY good website of explination (although it's pretty complicated)
The first page has a lot of ladder bar info on it.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope/
This is true but to tell a person that doesnt factor in all the aspect it would come close to the CG(there abouts), plus hes talking ladder bars and to have the IC up at the angle required I dont think thats going to happen... but all this is a unknown factor if he doesnt know where the CG is/will be
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Re: chassis guys!!! "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#493264
10/14/09 09:10 PM
10/14/09 09:10 PM
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Posts: 345 Ontario, Canada
Hyper Henry
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Hi Ron, gotta love those gassers ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbs.gif) I ended up going with 32" ladder bars on my J. For two reasons mostly, I was told the real long bars did not work and also I was not a big fan of the bars hanging way down from the car. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif) Well the first reason was wrong I believe as I have seen alot of the gassers on the back bumper with the long bars ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bow.gif) Myself I have had to add wheelie bars to keep mine down with just the 32" ladder bars and I have them adjusted to hit the softest possible right now ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif) My biggest problem is getting the car to launch straight ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flame.gif) I am going to make a few changes to mine before it comes back out again to race. When we built it we did not box the rear frame in, going to do that for sure as I think I am getting some frame flex back there ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eeek.gif) I am also going to try and run a anti-roll bar and a wishbone setup so I can get rid of the panhard bar setup. One other thing is we are going to put a good set of adjustable shocks on the front so we can hopefully play with front end travel. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif) One thing to remember with the gasers that differ from a 'normal' drag car is they are already sitting so high in the air so once you get them going up they tend to want to keep going ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif) but that also includes the top end as they sure carry alot of air under them and the steering can get pretty light on the top end, especially with a staight axle ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eeek.gif) FYI......My J is 100" wb, 2850 lbs. with me, 512 ci Eddy headed pump gas, foot brake leave just above idle and shift at 6400, has ran a best of 9.63 at 137 with some more left in it I am sure ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beer.gif) Derrick
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Re: "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: AndyF]
#493266
10/14/09 09:33 PM
10/14/09 09:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Bob_Coomer
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IMO I would go the route that would be the easiest install. I see no real reason to run such a long ladder bar. Remember the ladder bar will always be in motion. It just makes more since to me to have some in the 32-38" range, and they will work just fine. The added weight, and difficult to install would be real draw backs in my book for long ones like that.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color] [color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#493267
10/14/09 10:11 PM
10/14/09 10:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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The only problem with most ladder bar set ups is that you jut cant get the front low enough(on most cars). I ran ladder bars a few years back and could never get them low enough in the front... I even welded a longer set of brackets on the front to help soften the hit... with them on I had a 1.26 60' but it felt like someone punched me in the chest on each launch ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif)
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Re: chassis guys!!! "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: Hyper Henry]
#493268
10/14/09 10:35 PM
10/14/09 10:35 PM
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Thanks for adding to this thread Derrick ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbs.gif) I have your wheelie video on you tube saved in my favorites. my son has a line on a "J" that he want to build so I showed him your car, he loved it.... ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/coool.gif) I've got the willys all apart(doors off,fenders off, bare body) but it will be a while before I can get to a chassis for it. I want tostart collecting parts for it. Ron...
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Re: "how long can ladder bars be"
[Re: Hyper Henry]
#493273
10/16/09 01:09 AM
10/16/09 01:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,992 Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
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Quote:
Gotta love those Willys The all steel ones are crazy money though My buddies all steel 37 with a 40 steel front end is wicked, thanks to a KB 588 ci www.goneberzerk.com Ron is yours a 37/38?? Are you are just going to make it into a 40/41?? That's cool, lots do ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbs.gif)
![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beer.gif) Derrick
Yes, mine is a 37 and I want a 41 frontend on it, not to keen on the 37 nose, they are different but i like the 40-41 myself
I'd love to have a coupe but I found a great deal on this sedan, so thats what it will be... Ron... ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif)
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