Quote:

---

I knew there was way too much smoke being blown at the beginning of this thread. My

---

you think?????

i'm still trying to figure out
what he exactly does



"Just to be clear, I'm not a salesman and we are not closing the doors to everyone"

"Now there are only two of us and I personally can't do paint and body."

Quote:

---

Lets not jump to conclusions guys...From day one the cars owner has had nothing but praise for Tim and his crew...He also took responsibility for some of the delays...

I just can't believe it's taking so long when Tim stated his turn-around was real quick....I guess that black Super Bee isn't going to be finished either...

Maybe someone new will step up so Tim can have a good chance at showing off his work with the 25K max and quick turn around...

---

Perhaps Tim is a good guy and perhaps his shop does good work but I avoided commenting on this thread for quite some time because I knew 2 things;

- 1) a resto NEVER goes exactly according to plan. A shop should be very careful when giving a firm schedule, especially when it is overly optimistic.

- 2) The $25k "max labour" thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth because frankly it has little to do with the final completed resto costs of the car. By the time you factor in the materials and work that was farmed out, I'd bet that the REAL and TOTAL resto cost was far closer to the figures that myself and others have put forward from time to time.

I hope the owner is happy with his car and can now enjoy it, but I'm not naive enough to think he spend anywhere near $25k.


Dave

Quote:

---

Hi Everyone,

I haven't been watching the thread because I thought the owner had taken it over. I didn't realize that he had opted out. No problem, I'm going to give the long and the short of this job. I'm sure I won't remember everything in this posting and I'll add more later when I do.

We learned a lot on this job, good and bad. We learned what we are good at, what we are bad at and just about everything in between. For those wondering about the bottom line on cost, we have no idea how much the owner spent on parts and restorations of parts that we didn't do.

We had communications issues on this job that will never happen again. We started with a slick show and go quality driver with correct colors and markings that evolved into as much an OEM resto as we were capable of doing. There was no change in cost to the customer.

The most frustrating problems we had were with aftermarket parts that were either incorrect or just plain didn't fit. We spent an obsurd amount of time re-engineering and/or repeatedly replacing parts until we got the correct ones, all at no charge to the customer. This was an expensive lesson for us as the customer provided all parts. If anyone ever tries to give me another YearOne wiring harness, I pledge to choke them with it.

The owner came to inspect the car some time ago and gave us a punch list most of which is done. The door and hood hinges are currently out being rebuilt. After we repaint them and reinstall them, we will redo the overspray on the underside of the tops of the quarter panels inside of the trunk to the owner's taste and be finished.

People change their minds and we do our best to work with them. I would have to say that this car required more than the average amount of changes.

The car is being picked up with some problems with the parts we had no responsibility to purchase or rebuild. We just don't have the ability to fix everything.

What are we going to offer in the future? We don't know for sure. Our ideal scenario would be if we had someone like Alan to work with so we could do nothing but body and paint. We can fix anything in the way of metal work and make it look like it's never been touched. We can paint as well as anyone and still keep the prices fair. We also enjoy engines and suspensions.

If you go back in this thread and look at the pace we kept for body and paint, you'll see that is where we soar.

We're not going away but we are taking a look at what services we offer.

---

I read the first couple pages of this post & could see where it was going & I'm sure not going to bother to read the rest. First, because paint dabs & such is not my thing but mainly because there seems a lot of hostility from some of the posters. Don't understand why but no matter. I will say based on when the thread started to when you were buffing clear went pretty darn quick & based on the last few pictures on final page, came out very nicely. Truly good body/paint shops are few & far between. I hope you stay around & continue to offer good quality work for a reasonable price.

Quote:

---

Tim,

Thanks for the post. I'm sure the owner is going to be very happy with his car and it looks like you've done a great job.

A year or so ago, Alan, myself and some others posted in a thread regarding resto costs and I took exception to your comments that the figures I (and others) quoted were excessive. Your $25k max labour tagline and "revolutionary pricing" were bandied about in a manner that I found a tad arrogant. Several people jumped on the band wagon and commented that other resto shops were quoting $40k or so for this type of work with the insinuation that such an amount was way too high.

Now, after looking back over the entire thread and realizing that the car was "80% dissassembled" when it arrived in your shop and that it would be leaving sans interior and that the engine and various other sub-assy's and components were done by others or by the owner, I would suggest that the total resto cost was well over double the max labor figure and probably much more than that. In fairness, I know you never said what the total costs would be. I also noticed that your re-examination of your services and the noted "expensive lessons" that were learned undoubtably mean that you didn't do so well on your labor cap.

Between unforeseen damage, delay on parts and other providers, accounts payment difficulties, illnesses, weather and owner's expectations, perhaps it is easier to see why most other shops are reticent to give a firm quote and also that the final bill is typically more than $25k for labor.

I'm not trying to rub salt in any wounds or to say I told you so as much as to try to point out the true costs of a restoration to anybody considering it. Nobody benefits from a half completed project and an empty bank account. As you have stated, it would appear that metal work and paint and body are your shop's forte (or it was before the older fella left?) but Alan was right on the money when he said a complete resto with all components included is a 1000 hour job and I was right on the money when I said a business would have difficulties living with $25/hr.

I wish you the best with whatever choices you make regarding your company and it's services and to both you and the car's owner; beautiful car, beautiful job.

respectfully,

Dave

---

Dave, Just a follow up for clarity's sake.

-"80% disassembled" might have been a "slight" over statement.
-$25k was our MAX labor charge. The resto contract on this build was $18k.
-The customer did a lot of his own excellent restoration on many parts, as he showed in this thread.
-The customer was quoted $75k (if I understood correctly) to do the whole job by another Moparts member.

It is our belief that he saved a lot of money going with us regardless of the other restoration costs.

Still, we learned a lot and will never be responsible to fix other vendors mistakes, inaccuracies or inferior products in the future.

We were not "responsible" on this job but we tried our best and we couldn't fix all of the issues anyway. We did everything we could do to help the customer at no extra charge in order to live up to the reputation we wanted to build. If you ask me, that's pretty Revolutionary!

We still have no problem giving firm quotes for body and paint, engines and suspensions and will continue to do so. All of our jobs are fixed bid.

Everyone says the rest is the easy part so, we're going to leave "the rest" to everyone else (at least until we get better at it).

Quote:

---

Thanks for the reply and clarification Tim. As I said the car looks great. you absolutely went above and beyond. Most shops, especially with all paid employees just can't afford to eat those excess costs....or at least not for long! I have a pretty good idea of the final costs (unfortunately!) for a resto like this, though to be perfectly honest, this car is restored far more correctly than my own.(I overrestored mine on purpose and didn't pay any attention to paint daubs and correct suspension coatings (or lack thereof)). Still, I had much the same work done by many of the same Vendors and though I'm extremely happy with most of the work, it certainly does add up!

To the Owner; it'd be great to see some finished pics when she's all done.


I will definetely post pics when I am done with everything.

Quote:

---

The car isn't finished yet?

---

off topic... my dad just bought some front shock bushings on ebay from u tonight. i knew the "peps parts" looked familiar, then just spotted your name on here and put it all together. the end