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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: cloneguy]
#481634
01/30/11 03:40 PM
01/30/11 03:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,354
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,354
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
(You don't happen to wear tights and a cape while you are working, do you?) 
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: anlauto]
#481635
01/30/11 07:06 PM
01/30/11 07:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,178
People's Republic of Kali
70runner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,178
People's Republic of Kali
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Quote:
Quote:
Truth is - It is almost impossible to quote a price up front on a restoration. No one is 100% sure what lies ahead until they find all the trouble spots. I have seen many people (and friends) lose their ass sticking to quotes.
I borrowed this years ago from Roger Gibson's web site and it's written on my "policy" too..
• It is impossible to estimate the exact cost of a restoration at the beginning of a job. A general figure, a high and low, can be given based on previous similar jobs. If a written estimate is required, expect them to be high enough to cover any possibilities. Restorations are performed as economically as possible without compromising the finished quality.
Having done a couple restos, I'll readily acknowledge the surprises that can and often do surface, and the corresponding impact on work/cost elements. Having said that, I believe there is some plowable ground between an impossible and exact cost estimate, estimate being the operative word. Such an estimate would be based on a specified amount of work, with sufficient contingency detail to satisfy both restorer and customer.
Case in point: USCarTool advertises a body-in-white restoration for a set price. (Disclaimer: I don't work for them nor am I endorsing their service.) They specify the following (borrowed from their website):
Quote:
For $17,500 - We will completely refurbish your Mopar Unibody and return it to you in bare steel. All rust will be removed, all damaged panels replaced or repaired as needed. Send us your ugly, rusty damaged Mopar Unibody and you will receive back a bare steel, straight, refurbished Unibody. Your Mopar Unibody will be ready for final body and paint. All Mopar Unibody's are stripped to bare metal - all paint, rust, seam sealer etc. is 100% removed. Any panels that are rusted or dented beyond repair are replaced, unavailable panels are fabricated and repaired to better than OEM, all patches utilize fully butt welded seams. Rusted or pitted floors are replaced, rusted or damaged quarter panels are replaced, rusted trunk floors and extensions are replaced. Rusted frames are repaired (damaged or complete frame replacement, roof replacement or A-pillar replacement are extra cost items)
With the following disclaimer for deviations:
Quote:
Convertibles, roof replacement, frame damage or special circumstances (wing cars, fire damage etc.) will of course cost extra.
Admittedly "special circumstances" could cover a substantial area of deviations beyond typical panel repair/replacement. Assuming your mopar didn't contain special circumstances, their cost would represent an exact estimate. It would be interesting to know how many of their jobs come in at the specified cost.
ACMR is of course the other example, tailoring their exact labor estimate to mutually understood conditions of the car and final product requirements. In my case the contract specified what essentially was a body-in-white product with paint and minor reassembly.
From a customer perspective (mine only), the "high enough" element of the high-low estimate model in the Gibson quote often constituted a financial show stopper. A middle ground model could pose an estimate based on a mutually agreed specification of work, with cost contingencies based on (a) suspected deviations, (b) commonly encountered deviations, and/or (c) unanticipated deviations, all documented in a written estimate. Unanticipated deviations would of course remain indeterminate (until discovered) though could be addressed within the contract as a work-cost adjustment trigger. The Gibson quote alludes to (b) with the "previous similar jobs" language.
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: 70runner]
#481636
01/30/11 07:38 PM
01/30/11 07:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855
Georgetown Ontario Canada
anlauto
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,855
Georgetown Ontario Canada
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Thanks Tim...I've been know to wear.....oh never mind... I find it fairly easy to estimate a job on an E Body or something that I'm very familiar with...Lately I'm getting into B Bodies and have found, although quite similar, there's also a lot of differences... Perfect example happened this afternoon...I just got a new customer with a 70 Super Bee. I've never owned or restored on before...We're in the early stages and he brought me some parts to restore today...Two of the pieces look really strange to me and I asked him where they go on the car, his response was "I was hoping you could tell me"which means this one little example will take me extra research time (that's where Moparts comes in) just to figure out where and what they are....No big deal time wise, but it's extra time that's no usually charged... Also I give a quote on what we first discuss, then always the project escalates during...and the price goes up and up..."guy says...why is the total $50K ...you told me $40K?"...then I say...remember you wanted to add that 6 pack to your 440 and that Shaker hood ?...Those things add up 
CHECK OUT MY NEW WEB SITE !
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: anlauto]
#481637
01/30/11 09:05 PM
01/30/11 09:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 22,025
Enjoy life today, It has an ex...
gtx6970
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 22,025
Enjoy life today, It has an ex...
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To further deviate this thread from where it started but is seemingly being to be allowed to go. I'll jump in here. I'll admit I am intrigued by and would like to commened AMCR on this fixed price what ever you want to call it.  Also, Positive customer feedback is what we all strive for. And ultimately is the advertising we all need. Remember,,, Good news travels fast. But bad news travels at supersonic speeds. So, Based on this positive customer feedback. Would I use AMCR? Yes, but only after an in person visit. Remember ,, one persons version of mint is just as easily another persons version of trash. So I for one refuse to give good or bad reviews based solely on pictures. I have 3 cars in process right now. None of which requires any major exterior body and paint on my end. I'll be the 1st to admit , I am first and foremost a mechanic. Although I can and will do some paint work in areas such as the undercarriage, trunk or engine compartments. (obviously with advise from someone more knowledgeable than myself in this area) But I insist any exterior body - paint work be done by someone more qualified to do so. I have potentially 2 high profile cars in the wings and will be/am shopping for a competant body/paint facility thats capable of doing the work I demand.
Enjoy life today, It has an expiration date
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: gtx6970]
#481638
01/30/11 11:15 PM
01/30/11 11:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 428
Mid-Atlantic
Scatransit
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 428
Mid-Atlantic
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Regarding Mopar-specific resto shops: Once you've restored a few Mopars, you know what rusts, you know how stuff comes apart & goes back together, you know who the best vendors are for a specific need, etc, etc, etc...
I applaud AMCR (and USCarTool) for finally "packaging" the process!
The only real issue then, becomes the quality of the work...
[oo]======[oo]
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: anlauto]
#481639
01/31/11 02:13 AM
01/31/11 02:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,178
People's Republic of Kali
70runner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,178
People's Republic of Kali
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Quote:
I find it fairly easy to estimate a job on an E Body or something that I'm very familiar with...
A good point. Familiarity with a body style/model, that is, knowing what to ask/look for, the likely contingencies, and such should add precision to the work/cost estimate. This was an element of my decision to select ACMR - Mike has substantial experience with B bodies (and others), plus at least one 70B derelict outside his workshop.
When I reflect on the canvassing I did for my resto, the mopar oriented shops were generally more precise with cost estimates compared to the multi-make shops. This is not meant to be critical of multi-make restoration shops, only to reinforce the value of familiarity in developing cost estimates.
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: cloneguy]
#481641
04/16/11 12:49 PM
04/16/11 12:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,087
Long Island, NY
70plymA34
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,087
Long Island, NY
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If anyone is still left following this thread, hang in there. Very soon the Cuda will be started and i can finish the final part of my review for AMCR. I have spent countless hours on this car since it has been home redoing things and restoring components that were not addressed while the car was at the shop (pedal assy's, etc..). no blame to amcr on those components. they were not discussed in the resto. the dash came out again, steering column went through another resto. carb had to go to scott smith over at harms because Year Ones carb service sucks. the list is endless. a word of advice to all looking for a car. Buy one that is already done, LOL. No regrets, I knew this was going to be a big undertaking, I just hope it is going to be worth it in the end. STAY TUNED.
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: 70plymA34]
#481642
04/16/11 01:51 PM
04/16/11 01:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,654
Southern by Choice
Shoozy
I have a foot fetish
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I have a foot fetish
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,654
Southern by Choice
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Also for anyone interested, check the thread on the General Forum as Tim is reported to be critically ill as of today and not expected to pull through.  to him and his family.
Old, tired, and sometimes broke down. Me, not my car...
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: 70plymA34]
#481644
04/17/11 04:53 PM
04/17/11 04:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Very soon the Cuda will be started and i can finish the final part of my review for AMCR.
Kinda pointless and tacky now, let it be. imo
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: Challenger 1]
#481645
04/17/11 06:45 PM
04/17/11 06:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 18,575
Dreaming of the 808
AZ_A12_BEE
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 18,575
Dreaming of the 808
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I wonder what happens with all the cars/deals in progress?
69.5 A12 Bee, first purchased in 1976, car 169 on registry
69 Coronet R/T 440/4 spd
69 Coronet 500 Conv H code 383 4bbl/auto
37 Plymouth PU
Find your spot on earth and ride it.
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: Stewpar]
#481648
04/18/11 09:32 AM
04/18/11 09:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,087
Long Island, NY
70plymA34
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,087
Long Island, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Very soon the Cuda will be started and i can finish the final part of my review for AMCR.
Kinda pointless and tacky now, let it be. imo
He posted that 8 hours prior to finding out about his condition......................
I am sorry for posting. I didnt find about Tims condition until after I posted the thread. At this point, I am going to end any further review of AMCR's work since I dont know what the future will hold for the business. I will do my best to post updates every once in a while. To all that have followed this from day 1, thank you. It has been quite a journey.
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: 70plymA34]
#481649
04/18/11 01:56 PM
04/18/11 01:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,689
South Dakota
hotairballoonpilot
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,689
South Dakota
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Class act. Very respectful of you to do so. Maybe you can get it in the members rides survivors section section where you can keep it updated there. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Very soon the Cuda will be started and i can finish the final part of my review for AMCR.
Kinda pointless and tacky now, let it be. imo
He posted that 8 hours prior to finding out about his condition......................
I am sorry for posting. I didnt find about Tims condition until after I posted the thread. At this point, I am going to end any further review of AMCR's work since I dont know what the future will hold for the business. I will do my best to post updates every once in a while. To all that have followed this from day 1, thank you. It has been quite a journey.
Contact Me about AMD Prices
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Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
[Re: 70plymA34]
#481651
04/21/11 09:35 PM
04/21/11 09:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
This is going to be my last post on this thread. I am posting a pic of better times. This pic is appropriate to bring this thread to a close. This was taken in October of 2008, the day I went to see the car in person. I am holding the B7 test panel they shot for me to approve. The test panel was approved and the car was painted two days later.
Pictured L to R: Myself, TIM D (RIP), Hubert, Mike Snyder. I will continue uploading pics on projects/survivor thread.
THATS ALL FOLKS.
RIP Tim (1961-2011)
  
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