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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: Fasbird]
#47061
11/04/07 12:02 PM
11/04/07 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,527
Chicago, Illinois
Devil
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,527
Chicago, Illinois
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Quote:
Quote:
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Cause a Mopar was never built to have a suspention system like that. The way it is setup puts alot of stress where there wasn't before. Without serious strengthening to the mopar sub-frame and front frame area, it could come apart.
Actually the AlterKtion takes alot of stress off the chassis by removing the twisting stress the torsion bars put on the crossmember and the front suspension. The AlterKtion is the only aftermarket k-member I am aware of that puts all the weight and spring loads onto itself. And I can tell you it is more than capable of handeling it. Just the addition of an AlterKtion and subframe connectors makes driving an older car enjoyable again.
If you take a look at this photo you can see the AlterKtion coilover is contained. The pressure of the spring/shock is on the K-member itself and does NOT put the pressure on the existing Mopar chassis other than the same points the original K-member bolts to. The AlterKtion does not need the upper mounting to be WELDED into the mopar chassis tower assy. It is a true bolt-in system.
RMS Bolt-in System
I do not want to get into a debate over which system one should decide on. XV offers GREAT products. I have bought some myself. But, in regards to RMS vs. XV Level II, I chose the RMS. You say po-ta-toe, I say Po-Taa-toe.
The mopar K-member was never meant to take all the stress. That is why the load was transfered back tthrough the torsion bars. Now the front framerails are taking all the stress, where they didn't before. And can very possibly fail, like was said before. RMS even says that it is for OFF ROAD USE ONLY.
I wouldn't put this in a street driver in a million years, even the company tells you not too.
Ryan
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: Devil]
#47062
11/04/07 04:36 PM
11/04/07 04:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,111
NotRussia
2fast4yourBrain
Whack top Dodger
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Whack top Dodger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,111
NotRussia
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Hey John, Moparts is notorious for haters.
Don't let them prevent you from posting here. Just understand 90% of MOpar owners aren't likely to make major mods to their cars for the following reasons:
- I like the way it drives just fine; why change it?
- Keep it stock b/c it's worth more that way
- And the biggest reason....$$$. Just don't have it for big expensive mods.
Thank goodness that in America (and Canada), we have choices and we can thank high-end manufacturers to provide alternatives that can trickle down to the masses.
For backyard builders, just beef up the factory system.
For pro-touring dreamers with some coin, but not a whole lot, the Alter-k is a great choice (as in mine; got mine w/the airbags).
For the fortunate few who can drop six figures in a car restification, we have XV providing the utlimate that can compete w/exotics w/R&D to back up their claims.
You're not going to find a whole lot of the high-end market on this board, but I do wish XV still posts here so that we can see what's being offered.
Keep up the good work John! I still plan on getting your headers and power window regulators!
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: Fasbird]
#47065
11/04/07 07:50 PM
11/04/07 07:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 990
Norwalk, Ohio
sycboi
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 990
Norwalk, Ohio
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XV has some amazing products and obviously fantastic craftsmanship. I'm not even talking about the XV products at all. They have their niche and RMS has theirs as just stated by another gentleman.
The AlterKtion is on as many street cars as it is on race cars. Find me one person who has ever purchased one that isn't an absolute die-hard supporter of it's ability and RMS in general.
The critics of RMS or XV should let those of us whom actually own products from either or both do the talking here. Only real world experience counts in this type of discussion anyways. I have owned an AlterKtion for several years now. We also just placed a $1,500 order with XV so I obviously like their products as well.
Kinda funny how this discussion has come down to people talking about the only two quality systems on the Mopar market today...
-Michael
SuperBeast
An enforcer for the Mopar Mafia!
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: sycboi]
#47066
11/04/07 10:34 PM
11/04/07 10:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,527
Chicago, Illinois
Devil
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,527
Chicago, Illinois
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Quote:
XV has some amazing products and obviously fantastic craftsmanship. I'm not even talking about the XV products at all. They have their niche and RMS has theirs as just stated by another gentleman.
The AlterKtion is on as many street cars as it is on race cars. Find me one person who has ever purchased one that isn't an absolute die-hard supporter of it's ability and RMS in general.
The critics of RMS or XV should let those of us whom actually own products from either or both do the talking here. Only real world experience counts in this type of discussion anyways. I have owned an AlterKtion for several years now. We also just placed a $1,500 order with XV so I obviously like their products as well.
Kinda funny how this discussion has come down to people talking about the only two quality systems on the Mopar market today...
-Michael
There are three quality systems on the market, RMS, XV, Magnumforce.
No one is bashing either. I don't have either of them. I did research them all for my mopar, and went with upgrading the stock suspension.
The RMS is nice for a race car, but anything street driven is rolling the dice, it isn't made for long term, street driver use, and says it in the instructions.
Magnumforce and XV have strengthened and redone basically the entire front end of our mopars and done durability tests on their equipment to ensure that their products CAN take the abuse of a street driver.
I'm not trying to bash any product, but if you want to use a product and go against what the factory says to use the product for, then by all means go ahead.
Ryan
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: Devil]
#47067
11/05/07 02:17 PM
11/05/07 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,115
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,115
Irving, TX
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One thing that bothers me about the RMS system is that it removes some of the torsional strength from the front of the car.
Look at the unit off the car. There's only one little crossmember. If you grab the unit by the mounting points it would twist much easier than the stock K.
It removes the torsional load from the T-bars but the car is stuck relying on the flimsy core support to keep it from becoming a pretzel.
The XV unit has the second cross bar that helps prevent flex in the K. It's still going to move around on it's own but once installed it would lead to a much stiffer chassis.
Adding the other pieces to stiffen the vehicle would really help either setup but if you're going that far you wouldn't consider the RMS in the first place.
I don't have any experience with either setup but understanding physics and knowing how to break stuff makes me lean more towards the better designed (and painfully expensive) XV.
If you're going to go drag racing, RMS has got the better looking product assuming you've already got a cage with forward bars.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: feets]
#47068
11/05/07 08:10 PM
11/05/07 08:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,111
NotRussia
2fast4yourBrain
Whack top Dodger
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Whack top Dodger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,111
NotRussia
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Quote:
One thing that bothers me about the RMS system is that it removes some of the torsional strength from the front of the car.
Look at the unit off the car. There's only one little crossmember. If you grab the unit by the mounting points it would twist much easier than the stock K.
It removes the torsional load from the T-bars but the car is stuck relying on the flimsy core support to keep it from becoming a pretzel.
The XV unit has the second cross bar that helps prevent flex in the K. It's still going to move around on it's own but once installed it would lead to a much stiffer chassis.
Adding the other pieces to stiffen the vehicle would really help either setup but if you're going that far you wouldn't consider the RMS in the first place.
I don't have any experience with either setup but understanding physics and knowing how to break stuff makes me lean more towards the better designed (and painfully expensive) XV.
If you're going to go drag racing, RMS has got the better looking product assuming you've already got a cage with forward bars.
I dunno. That "little crossmember" of the RMS is pretty dang beefy. Compare that to the flimsy, sheet metal torsion bar x-member that's still there! It's not like you cut it out.
The RMS is super stiff compared to the factory K. Latter may be heavier, but not as stiff.
Folks have been on HR Power Tours w/the RMS and never heard of any issues.
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: DJVCuda]
#47070
11/05/07 08:55 PM
11/05/07 08:55 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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i too run an alter k and it has lived up to my every expectation. for being designed, fabricated, and tested by one man in his own shop with his own green backs, pretty impressive. now if my funds weren't as limited as they are with a wife and family on one income, sure give me a xv stage II. unfortunantly most of us can't afford such a bad a$$ suspension as the xv. rms vs. xv not even in the same playing field. for now i will enjoy my alter k tion. 
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
#47071
11/05/07 09:40 PM
11/05/07 09:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,396
The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,396
The Pale Blue Dot
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Honesly, I think the M.F. is the worst looking of the bunch, it has the coilovers going into the O.E. shock towers, so forward bars are MANDITORY, and they will supply them for additional cost. These old cars need...no NEED! additional support when they are going to be pushed hard, the XV system sells there before any suspension mods- Hey guys what about the A body stiffing package  The Alter-K is sweet and I would jump on one, but when I optioned out the package I wanted it was 6K  Yah 12.19" 6 piston caliper and air ride, sway bar, ect. Even the base unit ain't inexpensive. I"ve got the heim jointed strut rods and will get the same for the UCAs. Then some QA-1's and maybe some F.F. 1" t-bars to replace the .92 and eddie IACs. The 1" sway bay is fine for now. Oh! Well! I'd like to see Bill reply, and get his  outdated website taken care of. But, he HAS posted on his own site that he is crazy busy and between Production and car shows that ain't happining anytime soon. Cause I'm really far more interested in his triangulaed 4 link rear suspension, cause mine sukzors (way too much snap-throttle oversteer) with NO rear bar. Some subframe connectors and torque boxes, ect should help the chassis. WOW long post this calls for
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: DJVCuda]
#47072
11/05/07 10:15 PM
11/05/07 10:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,527
Chicago, Illinois
Devil
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,527
Chicago, Illinois
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Quote:
... no offence... but have you actually installed an Alter K to make those kinda claims?
I have and its not that flimsy... I'm no engineer but Bill does an excellent job making his product... so I doubt you have any factual info regarding its rubber band status...
I don't need any evidence, nor will I ever have any from myself cause the creator of the product even says not to use it on a street car. So I won't put it on any of my street cars. I'd rather not have the front end of my car fall out in 5 or 10 years.
Ryan
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: Devil]
#47074
11/05/07 11:02 PM
11/05/07 11:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,111
NotRussia
2fast4yourBrain
Whack top Dodger
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Whack top Dodger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,111
NotRussia
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Quote:
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... no offence... but have you actually installed an Alter K to make those kinda claims?
I have and its not that flimsy... I'm no engineer but Bill does an excellent job making his product... so I doubt you have any factual info regarding its rubber band status...
I don't need any evidence, nor will I ever have any from myself cause the creator of the product even says not to use it on a street car. So I won't put it on any of my street cars. I'd rather not have the front end of my car fall out in 5 or 10 years.
Ryan
Bill has to put that disclaimer in that otherwise it'd have to get DOT-certified.
That is HUGE bucks. There are literally hundreds of cars w/the system installed and running.
Real-world tests better than some DOT rating.
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: 2fast4yourBrain]
#47075
11/05/07 11:21 PM
11/05/07 11:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
67autocross
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
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The only thing I see wrong with the VX system is they don't have a level 2 set up for the A body cars. As soon as they do thats what I'll be buying.
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: Devil]
#47076
11/06/07 08:04 AM
11/06/07 08:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,396
The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,396
The Pale Blue Dot
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Quote:
Quote:
... no offence... but have you actually installed an Alter K to make those kinda claims?
I have and its not that flimsy... I'm no engineer but Bill does an excellent job making his product... so I doubt you have any factual info regarding its rubber band status...
I don't need any evidence, nor will I ever have any from myself cause the creator of the product even says not to use it on a street car. So I won't put it on any of my street cars. I'd rather not have the front end of my car fall out in 5 or 10 years.
Ryan
Then why do you keep posting negitive cr@p about a product you have no experience with, no clue as to the testing/engineering behind, and have no intention of useing? 
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: 2fast4yourBrain]
#47077
11/06/07 08:50 AM
11/06/07 08:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
... no offence... but have you actually installed an Alter K to make those kinda claims?
I have and its not that flimsy... I'm no engineer but Bill does an excellent job making his product... so I doubt you have any factual info regarding its rubber band status...
I don't need any evidence, nor will I ever have any from myself cause the creator of the product even says not to use it on a street car. So I won't put it on any of my street cars. I'd rather not have the front end of my car fall out in 5 or 10 years.
Ryan
Bill has to put that disclaimer in that otherwise it'd have to get DOT-certified.
That is HUGE bucks. There are literally hundreds of cars w/the system installed and running.
Real-world tests better than some DOT rating.
yup, techinically, XV should be using the same disclaimer (off road use only), otherwise they could be opening themselves up to potential lawsuits. a lot of performance parts state "off road use only" due to emissions compliance, too.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: DJVCuda]
#47079
11/06/07 10:29 AM
11/06/07 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,527
Chicago, Illinois
Devil
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,527
Chicago, Illinois
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Lol, you guys are funny. Haven't laughed this hard for a while. I'm just telling the truth. You guys don't want to accept that, fine. It isn't my problem. My car drives fine and handles well. And I know it isn't going to fall apart. Quote:
yup, techinically, XV should be using the same disclaimer (off road use only), otherwise they could be opening themselves up to potential lawsuits. a lot of performance parts state "off road use only" due to emissions compliance, too.
XV has gone through and tested their mopars to ensure that their products are streetable. I've seen the tests and the information to back it up. What disclaimer would they need since theirs is streetable? It is out of my price range, but that isn't their fault.
Quote:
Then why do you keep posting negitive cr@p about a product you have no experience with, no clue as to the testing/engineering behind, and have no intention of useing?
Cause I've analyzed the information given by all the systems, I made the informed decision to go with an upgraded stock setup, because of my price range. I went through and did pros/cons of each system. And the alterKtion was the last on the list, because of the information given before.
Quote:
MY CARBS SAY OFF ROAD USE>>>> will they fall off in 5-10 years too?
think about what your saying!
Oye, lol. That's a really intelligent post.
Ryan
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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end
[Re: Devil]
#47080
11/06/07 10:32 AM
11/06/07 10:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
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Quote:
Oye, lol. That's a really intelligent post.
Ryan
just like yours my man...lol
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