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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: Dartcuda]
#456609
09/01/09 08:55 PM
09/01/09 08:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
65signet
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
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I have friend runs just a 340 with eddys OOTB in an A body runs 11.70s bigger cam than what you run, but a lot less cubes.
1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA
1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#456610
09/01/09 09:03 PM
09/01/09 09:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
[unless it's a real street car, a nice 4500 converter would do wonders but it'll be crap for the street.
Why 
Sorry to get offtrack but why do most people say a high stall converter is junk on the street???
The TA 8inch (5k flash off the footbrake)in my stuff drives around town very close to a stock converter. In fact the guy at the local muffler shop backed my car off of the rack and asked me if I had a stock 'vert in it. No, I replied, just a quality converter.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: dizuster]
#456611
09/01/09 09:15 PM
09/01/09 09:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
The cam is wrong, the intake is wrong, and the convertor is wrong...for starters.
I don't see it like that at all...
The cam matches the intake, which matches the converter, which matches the compression ratio, which matches the original intent of the car... it's a street car.
No doubt a 416" E-headed combo could be faster, but I don't think it's all that far off with the parts you have. It's a very reliable, low RPM, street combo.
However as everyone has said, there are certainly oppertunities to make the car faster. More cam, looser converter, porting the heads, etc... will all do wonders for the ET/MPH, but the drivability will be sacrificed.
These 4" crank motors seem to love carb, so I don't think putting a 750 on it would help. Especially since it doesn't have any HP/MPH at the big end. A smaller carb may help the bottom end, but not the top end.
If you wanted to keep it streetable, I would start with an intake, and a low gear set for the 904 (if it doesn't have one already). The lack of plenum volume in that intake is definately not helping. The low gear set would be a bandaid for the lack of converter stall speed too.
Those two things should pick it up without hurting the drivability at all, and neither one is all that pricy to do...
My  ...
 As currently set up I think its running pretty good and as it should. With some simple changes as mentioned it can easily be faster. I would probably change out the intake and vert first. mike
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: 65cuda]
#456612
09/01/09 09:51 PM
09/01/09 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Stroker motors love duration... you have more CI and your still trying to get the volume of air/fuel through a small intake so if you keep the valve open longer its going to help. Its either port work and a intake to get the fuel/air there in the shorter time(your currant cam) or lengthen your time for filling the cyl with your currant set up(duration) 
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: dodgefarmer]
#456617
09/01/09 11:14 PM
09/01/09 11:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,309
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,309
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
First thing that I'd try is pulling the muffs.
Randy
I don't see any posts showing the exhaust sytem or the fuel system. you say it goes faster on the ET but the MPH stays the same, you can't fix what you don't know is wrong. I would do one or the other first, either try jetting the carb. up to see if you can slow the 1/4 MPH down by making it fat, if it doesn't slow down fix the fuel system now If it does slow down by jetting it to rich try leaning it down until it slows down and try removing the exhaust at the track on the same day that you have already made some runs, one or two. BTW, what size and type of exhaust and mufflers are you using? I owned and raced a car that would pick up .84 EY and 8.5 MPH by removing the side pipes and turbo mufflers  Let us know what you do and the results please  I think the best way to learn, especially on race cars, is with the hands on approach of doing it yourself TEST,test and tests some more   
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#456620
09/02/09 06:22 AM
09/02/09 06:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,321
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,321
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
First thing that I'd try is pulling the muffs.
Randy
I don't see any posts showing the exhaust sytem or the fuel system. you say it goes faster on the ET but the MPH stays the same, you can't fix what you don't know is wrong. I would do one or the other first, either try jetting the carb. up to see if you can slow the 1/4 MPH down by making it fat, if it doesn't slow down fix the fuel system now If it does slow down by jetting it to rich try leaning it down until it slows down and try removing the exhaust at the track on the same day that you have already made some runs, one or two. BTW, what size and type of exhaust and mufflers are you using? I owned and raced a car that would pick up .84 EY and 8.5 MPH by removing the side pipes and turbo mufflers Let us know what you do and the results please I think the best way to learn, especially on race cars, is with the hands on approach of doing it yourself TEST,test and tests some more
The OP is right in that the mph is off for what he has. His combination, as is, should make at least 1 hp/cu.in. That would put him at 115 mph assuming a 3500 lb race weight. Here is what I would check:
1. Good fuel pressure through the traps
2. Is there a plugged muffler.
3. Make sure you don't have a junk converter. Cheep converter will slip a bunch up top and give away a bunch of mph.
Then
Keep tuning, and go to Edgewater in the late fall
Let us know how it goes
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: 65cuda]
#456621
09/02/09 07:42 AM
09/02/09 07:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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I find it amusing that in 31 posts that there has been suggestions of changing carbs, cams, converters, etc. and no one has even mentioned TIMING . Should need about 15* initial, and about 35* total as a good starting point, with good cap, wires, etc., and a MSD or other quality ignition system. Since the MPH and ET are close, it's down on power, and poor ignition or wrong timing is a good place to look. Damper timing marks correct? I think it's a lot cheaper to finish the basic tune than throw parts at it, but thats just me.
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#456622
09/02/09 07:43 AM
09/02/09 07:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
bigsbigelow
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
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Quote:
I find it amusing that in 31 posts that there has been suggestions of changing carbs, cams, converters, etc. and no one has even mentioned TIMING . Should need about 15* initial, and about 35* total as a good starting point, with good cap, wires, etc., and a MSD or other quality ignition system. Since the MPH and ET are close, it's down on power, and poor ignition or wrong timing is a good place to look. Damper timing marks correct? I think it's a lot cheaper to finish the basic tune than throw parts at it, but thats just me.
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: bigsbigelow]
#456623
09/02/09 07:47 AM
09/02/09 07:47 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
I find it amusing that in 31 posts that there has been suggestions of changing carbs, cams, converters, etc. and no one has even mentioned TIMING . Should need about 15* initial, and about 35* total as a good starting point, with good cap, wires, etc., and a MSD or other quality ignition system. Since the MPH and ET are close, it's down on power, and poor ignition or wrong timing is a good place to look. Damper timing marks correct? I think it's a lot cheaper to finish the basic tune than throw parts at it, but thats just me.
At some time you have to ASSUME that they have checked
the basics before they start asking for help....
at least thats my opinion
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: dizuster]
#456625
09/02/09 09:46 AM
09/02/09 09:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,729
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,729
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
The cam is wrong, the intake is wrong, and the convertor is wrong...for starters.
I don't see it like that at all...
The cam matches the intake, which matches the converter, which matches the compression ratio, which matches the original intent of the car... it's a street car.
No doubt a 416" E-headed combo could be faster, but I don't think it's all that far off with the parts you have. It's a very reliable, low RPM, street combo.
However as everyone has said, there are certainly oppertunities to make the car faster. More cam, looser converter, porting the heads, etc... will all do wonders for the ET/MPH, but the drivability will be sacrificed.
These 4" crank motors seem to love carb, so I don't think putting a 750 on it would help. Especially since it doesn't have any HP/MPH at the big end. A smaller carb may help the bottom end, but not the top end.
If you wanted to keep it streetable, I would start with an intake, and a low gear set for the 904 (if it doesn't have one already). The lack of plenum volume in that intake is definately not helping. The low gear set would be a bandaid for the lack of converter stall speed too.
Those two things should pick it up without hurting the drivability at all, and neither one is all that pricy to do...
My ...
You will note, that when i made my comments,(1st post in the thread) he was complaining about how the car ran, and had made no mention of it being a street car, just why it was only going 109.. I still say my advice is sound.
BTW, My little brother has a 9.5 compression 360 that runs 11.40's and i suspect we will get it to go a good bit quicker(flat tappet, 3325 pounds)so i dont think i was talking out of school that this guys car, even at that compression could go mighty close to 11 flat if all the components were correctly matched. I would bet money i could make a 416 at 10 to 1 do that, at his weight.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: B3422W5]
#456626
09/02/09 11:30 AM
09/02/09 11:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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OP stated trap mph. I asked for trap RPM of the engine. I think before everyone re-designs this engine to match theirs/a freinds/a guy they read abouts.... more has to be known. Do you have the incrementals for 60', 300', 600', 1000'? Going to the track and making changes that improve are great. Tracking those changes and comparing the results is where the racer comes out and the street guy falls back.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: B3422W5]
#456627
09/02/09 11:36 AM
09/02/09 11:36 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
65cuda
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
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Thanks you guys so much good info. yes i did the basics. i have been changing the timming. it is at about 20 all in it's 36-37. i was running a 750 vac sec. it ran a 12.30 with that carb. i just last week pulled all the stock fuel lines and ran 3/8 all the way. i put the 950 back on and i pulled the sec. PV and put 86s in the back and upped the prim. to 80s thats when it ran a best of 12.05. i am going to drop the muffs tomorrow night and take the jet kit with me. also let my wife drive she is at least a 100# less than me. i have been switching carbs back and forth 950 and 750. then put the 750 and air cleaner on for shows. also i did all the work myself i built the motor and did the paint and body. racing is new for me. i always just had show cars. but my wife and i are liking this race thing. i can see i will need two race cars at this pace. we have to argue to see who gets to drive. the muffs are flowmasters with an h pipe turn downs in front of the 8 3/4. headers are headman streets 1 5/8 tubes.
65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: B3422W5]
#456628
09/02/09 01:28 PM
09/02/09 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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Quote:
You will note, that when i made my comments,(1st post in the thread) he was complaining about how the car ran, and had made no mention of it being a street car, just why it was only going 109.. I still say my advice is sound.
Sorry I didn't mean that as a shot at your advice to pick the car ET/MPH up. You're advice was spot on to do that.
I just meant to say the parts weren't mis-matched to each other, or the original intent of the car.
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