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Six pack vacuum pic please #448788
08/25/09 07:04 AM
08/25/09 07:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 733
Long Island NY
yellow sixpack Offline OP
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I need a pic of a E bodysix pack set up. Single port breather 71 style carbs with vacuum line on top and bottom of center carb power disk brakes. Have an idea how to T vacuum lines just looking for other input. Thanks
Rob

5439223-018.JPG (8009 downloads)
Last edited by yellow sixpack; 08/25/09 07:16 AM.

If you can't be smart.....don't be stupid!
Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: yellow sixpack] #448789
08/25/09 08:18 AM
08/25/09 08:18 AM
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Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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First thing you need is the correct breather.The one you have won't do it.

Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: 62maxwgn] #448790
08/25/09 11:06 AM
08/25/09 11:06 AM
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Bel Air Maryland USA 21014
wmwalden Offline
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The port on the top of the carb goes to the breather in the VC.
The one at the bottom of the carb goes to the PCV Valve.

Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: wmwalden] #448791
08/25/09 01:12 PM
08/25/09 01:12 PM
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Long Island NY
yellow sixpack Offline OP
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I did not mention in my original post this is a 70 challenger so the breather is correct. The carb is 71 style. When you buy these carbs new thats what you get. Thats why I am asking how it would be routed with these parts. Can I just plug the middle carb top breather?

Last edited by yellow sixpack; 08/25/09 01:14 PM.

If you can't be smart.....don't be stupid!
Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: yellow sixpack] #448792
08/25/09 01:49 PM
08/25/09 01:49 PM
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Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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Plug/cap the tube,find a two nipple breather or change the bowl.All will work.

Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: yellow sixpack] #448793
08/25/09 04:08 PM
08/25/09 04:08 PM
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Shoreline, Washington
72roadrunnergtx Offline
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If you are not using the enclosed bowl vent valve, it is recommended that the hose fitting not be plugged and allowed to vent to the atmosphere.

Last edited by 72roadrunnergtx; 08/25/09 04:10 PM.

1972 Road Runner GTX 440 6bbl 5-speed
[img]http://72rrgtx.com/carpics/bucket/DSC06730r-1.jpg[/img]
Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: 72roadrunnergtx] #448794
08/25/09 08:03 PM
08/25/09 08:03 PM
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Florida
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cataclysm80 Offline
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It's a vent, don't plug it.

You could leave it open if you want, most people don't have problems with that. It would be slightly safer to route it to the breather though, which would mean getting a 2 nipple breather or "T" ing into the breather hose. Read a story in an old mopar mag about a housefly going up the fuel vent and getting stuck between the needle and seat causing fuel to overflow everything and start a fire which burned the car down! What a horrible chain of events.

Tav

Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: cataclysm80] #448795
08/25/09 11:04 PM
08/25/09 11:04 PM
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the boonies
aarcuda Offline
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Quote:

It's a vent, don't plug it.

You could leave it open if you want, most people don't have problems with that. It would be slightly safer to route it to the breather though, which would mean getting a 2 nipple breather or "T" ing into the breather hose. Read a story in an old mopar mag about a housefly going up the fuel vent and getting stuck between the needle and seat causing fuel to overflow everything and start a fire which burned the car down! What a horrible chain of events.

Tav


once again, i will disagree on this.

yes, that tube IS a vent. BUT that vent tube is not the ONLY vent. the fuel bowl has a passage that allows the bowl to vent directly to the hole in the center front of the airhorn on the carb. plugging that tube will stop gas from coming out of the tube and onto the manifold if the needle gets stuck open or if the gas percolates out.

with the tube plugged the bowl WILL STILL VENT through that hole I mentioned in the top of the airhorn.

Just go and try it. get a hose and connect it to the tube. blow into it and you see that air will come out that center hole. so its connected and the bowl will be vented even if the tube is capped.

you can tun the carb upside down and gas will run out of that hole. IT IS A VENT

btw, the two end carbs vent thru the hole in the middle of their air horns two. there is a passage that goes thru the body connecting the fuel bowl to that hole in the air horn. on the center carb, theres a rectangular slot in the metering block to allow this. in the end carbs, the metering plate doesnt cover it up

Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: aarcuda] #448796
08/26/09 12:49 AM
08/26/09 12:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 765
Shoreline, Washington
72roadrunnergtx Offline
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Plugging off that nipple defeats the intended purpose of that vent valve. With that said pretty much all completion series carbs don’t have a need nor have this additional bowl vent valve. For street applications going back many years, carburetors have had bowl vent valves. It is not intended to be the primary bowl vent, it is there to allow evaporating fuel to exit the bowl rather than collect in the air cleaner under hot at rest conditions, which would help to induce hard hot starts. Pre 71’ OEM Holley’s had a simple rubber plug that closed off a hole in the top of the bowl when throttle position was off idle. In the case of six-pack, with the addition of the outboard bowls venting directly into the air cleaner, this single bowl vent valve on the center carb isn’t enough to prevent hard hot starting. Try starting your hot six-pack without the cleaner in place sometime after a good 20min. heat soak.

The enclosed design with the hose nipple started in 70’ with California cars in an effort to collect these evaporative gases and store them in the crank case for later consumption (hose to breather in 70 &71’). Later years had this nipple connected to the charcoal canister.

The stuck needle and seat scenario that keeps coming up with this topic doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. A well maintained carburetor/fuel system rarely suffers from such a failure. Even without an open bowl vent valve, fuel will overflow the venturies and primary vent to flood the intake and will spill around the throttle shafts on to the manifold.

Holley technical support will tell you to leave this nipple open for a street application.


1972 Road Runner GTX 440 6bbl 5-speed
[img]http://72rrgtx.com/carpics/bucket/DSC06730r-1.jpg[/img]
Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: 72roadrunnergtx] #448797
08/26/09 07:40 AM
08/26/09 07:40 AM
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Posts: 15,493
the boonies
aarcuda Offline
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Quote:

Plugging off that nipple defeats the intended purpose of that vent valve. With that said pretty much all completion series carbs don’t have a need nor have this additional bowl vent valve. For street applications going back many years, carburetors have had bowl vent valves. It is not intended to be the primary bowl vent, it is there to allow evaporating fuel to exit the bowl rather than collect in the air cleaner under hot at rest conditions, which would help to induce hard hot starts. Pre 71’ OEM Holley’s had a simple rubber plug that closed off a hole in the top of the bowl when throttle position was off idle. In the case of six-pack, with the addition of the outboard bowls venting directly into the air cleaner, this single bowl vent valve on the center carb isn’t enough to prevent hard hot starting. Try starting your hot six-pack without the cleaner in place sometime after a good 20min. heat soak.

The enclosed design with the hose nipple started in 70’ with California cars in an effort to collect these evaporative gases and store them in the crank case for later consumption (hose to breather in 70 &71’). Later years had this nipple connected to the charcoal canister.

The stuck needle and seat scenario that keeps coming up with this topic doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. A well maintained carburetor/fuel system rarely suffers from such a failure. Even without an open bowl vent valve, fuel will overflow the venturies and primary vent to flood the intake and will spill around the throttle shafts on to the manifold.

Holley technical support will tell you to leave this nipple open for a street application.




ok. I can buy the hard starting scenario. but i have had a motor bust into flames due to gas on the intake that got hot and spontaneously combusted.

i am not willing to let that happen to my cuda. I am not willing to trust that something in my well maintained system will cause the needle valve to stick and pour gas out the vent.

typically, when the needle sticks, the bowl floods, runs like crap as it dumps fuel into the ventury and the engine dies so it stops flooding. if the port is left open, it could dump fuel on the hot manifold and keep on running until WHOOSH!

but you claimed that you need that open to vent the bowl and thats not true because there is another vent that is built in and the bowl and that WILL vent with that port plugged. and that was my point.

Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: aarcuda] #448798
08/26/09 09:42 AM
08/26/09 09:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
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Shoreline, Washington
72roadrunnergtx Offline
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Quote:

but you claimed that you need that open to vent the bowl and thats not true because there is another vent that is built in and the bowl and that WILL vent with that port plugged. and that was my point.




I think I if you read both of my posts above again, I never claimed the bowl vent valve hose nipple to be the primary fuel bowl vent and should be left un-plugged for that reason. As you have stated, the primary bowl vent is cast through the air horn. My point was/is if you are not running an evaporative recovery system of some kind, it is intended by design that that nipple is to be vented to the atmosphere as was the pre-71’ “rubber plug over a hole” bowl vent valve.


1972 Road Runner GTX 440 6bbl 5-speed
[img]http://72rrgtx.com/carpics/bucket/DSC06730r-1.jpg[/img]
Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: 72roadrunnergtx] #448799
08/26/09 11:17 AM
08/26/09 11:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,493
the boonies
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i may have misquoted you. I thought we had this discussion in another post a few weeks (months) ago but it may have been from someone else that said if you plug that tube, there will be no vent. i apologize for stating it was you.

Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: 72roadrunnergtx] #448800
08/26/09 12:23 PM
08/26/09 12:23 PM
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Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

but you claimed that you need that open to vent the bowl and thats not true because there is another vent that is built in and the bowl and that WILL vent with that port plugged. and that was my point.




I think I if you read both of my posts above again, I never claimed the bowl vent valve hose nipple to be the primary fuel bowl vent and should be left un-plugged for that reason. As you have stated, the primary bowl vent is cast through the air horn. My point was/is if you are not running an evaporative recovery system of some kind, it is intended by design that that nipple is to be vented to the atmosphere as was the pre-71’ “rubber plug over a hole” bowl vent valve.




If you look at the Chevrolet Corvette Holley Tri-Power carb,the only vent is the one cast in the bowl.1970/71 emission standards required it to vent bowl vapor into the canister instead of the atmosphere.It is not needed.If it weren't for California,we probably still wouldn't have one.

Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: 62maxwgn] #448801
08/27/09 05:55 PM
08/27/09 05:55 PM
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Mybe it is me But I always thiought it was silly to dump the fuel into the valve cover and into the oil.
BUT have seen a car or 2 with the hose right over on the exhaust ect is nuts
I used the 2 nipple breather


[img]https://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/fast340six/sig%20pics/2840886-340SIX-1.jpg[/img]
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73 Dart Sport 340/ 70 challenger vert. That may still get built, If I live long enough
Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: yellow sixpack] #448802
08/27/09 08:24 PM
08/27/09 08:24 PM
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Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Quote:

I did not mention in my original post this is a 70 challenger so the breather is correct. The carb is 71 style. When you buy these carbs new thats what you get. Thats why I am asking how it would be routed with these parts. Can I just plug the middle carb top breather?








If your not going to change the breather to a 2 or 3 nipple unit, PLUG the center carb, it's just an emission vent, it will not reduce, or hamper the function or performance of the carb, leaving it to vent open, is asking for a future mess of fuel on the engine, and/or flame job!, and I'm not talking custom paint either

I've been running/tuning/building sixpacks for about 30 years now, I've seen/done just about everything with them.......

Mike

Re: Six pack vacuum pic please [Re: DAYCLONA] #448803
08/29/09 10:26 AM
08/29/09 10:26 AM
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CT: Corrupticut
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So for you folks saying plug the vent, what do you do about the flapper style on the older holleys? If fuel spillover is the issue, why do they exist at all?

I say plug the vent if it makes you happy. But it is there for a reason.

If you want to run the vent open without the emmissions connections and you dont like that gaping hole on the vent, put on a short hose, plug the end and drill a small hole in the plug. thats what I did. Paint it black and most folks wont notice. What does it matter, cause unless you connect to the emmissions system it is not stock anyway.

BTW, I had a bowl overflow due to a stuck float. Some of the gas ran out the throttle shafts and onto the intake and very little, if any, made it out the vent hole. Why? Cause the vent hole is small and the vent is near the highest part of the fuel system. High fuel levels cause flow out the primaries into the intake before flowing out the vent.

Dallas








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