Re: New Summit Brand Oil for Flat Tappet Cams
[Re: Dakota_Don]
#436456
08/13/09 01:17 PM
08/13/09 01:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
why not use rotella T or another brand of diesel oil
Rotella T and other brands are slowly taking the zinc out their oils i think "not 100%" they contain somethin like 1400 on the zinc side
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Re: New Summit Brand Oil for Flat Tappet Cams
[Re: 540challenger]
#436457
08/13/09 01:18 PM
08/13/09 01:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
Quote:
why not use rotella T or another brand of diesel oil
Rotella T and other brands are slowly taking the zinc out their oils i think "not 100%" they contain something like 1400ppm on the zinc side
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Re: New Summit Brand Oil for Flat Tappet Cams
[Re: 540challenger]
#436459
08/13/09 01:32 PM
08/13/09 01:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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Quote:
Quote:
why not use rotella T or another brand of diesel oil
Rotella T and other brands are slowly taking the zinc out their oils i think "not 100%" they contain somethin like 1400 on the zinc side
That was true at one time,however now most don't contain 1400ppm,more in the 1100/1200ppm range of zinc.Also,diesel oil's are formulated for diesel engines and contains adatives that are not recommended/found in oil for gas engines.If the opposite were true it would be the same as a "one size fits all" and no need for engine specific oil's.
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Re: New Summit Brand Oil for Flat Tappet Cams
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#436460
08/13/09 01:38 PM
08/13/09 01:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
why not use rotella T or another brand of diesel oil
Rotella T and other brands are slowly taking the zinc out their oils i think "not 100%" they contain somethin like 1400 on the zinc side
That was true at one time,however now most don't contain 1400ppm,more in the 1100/1200ppm range of zinc.Also,diesel oil's are formulated for diesel engines and contains adatives that are not recommended/found in oil for gas engines.If the opposite were true it would be the same as a "one size fits all" and no need for engine specific oil's.
wow thanks for the update i am glad i switch of to Ams Oil.
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Re: New Summit Brand Oil for Flat Tappet Cams
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#436463
08/13/09 07:14 PM
08/13/09 07:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 74
Stevensville, ON
Frank Raso
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 74
Stevensville, ON
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It is the phosphorus in ZDDP and not zinc that provides the anti-wear protection in engine oil. There is more to a good flat tappet engine oil than just ZDDP content. The latest SM-rated Starburst oils have 600-800 ppm of phosphorus while good CI-4/SL rated diesel oils contain 1000-1200 ppm of phosphorus. Some of the CI-4/SL 15W-40 diesel oils contain UP TO 1400 ppm of phosphorus. The latest CJ-4/SM diesel (or HDEO) oils for emission-controlled diesels are limited to a maximum of 1200 ppm of phosphorus and most contain 1000-1200 ppm like the older CI-4/SL HDEOs. There is no need to be concerned that HDEOs do not contain enough ZDDP for flat tappet engines. Phosphorus levels higher than 1400 ppm lead to long term wear and increased engine deposits. Levels over 2000 ppm lead to camshaft spalling. It doesn't matter if the excessive phosphorus is in racing oil or in HDEO. Zinc ppm is typically slightly about 100-200 ppm higher than phosphorus. Why would you possibly want 5000 ppm of zinc in an already broken-in engine? ACCCC Engine Oil Article
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Re: New Summit Brand Oil for Flat Tappet Cams
[Re: Frank Raso]
#436464
08/13/09 08:22 PM
08/13/09 08:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,833
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,833
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
It is the phosphorus in ZDDP and not zinc that provides the anti-wear protection in engine oil. There is more to a good flat tappet engine oil than just ZDDP content.
The latest SM-rated Starburst oils have 600-800 ppm of phosphorus while good CI-4/SL rated diesel oils contain 1000-1200 ppm of phosphorus. Some of the CI-4/SL 15W-40 diesel oils contain UP TO 1400 ppm of phosphorus. The latest CJ-4/SM diesel (or HDEO) oils for emission-controlled diesels are limited to a maximum of 1200 ppm of phosphorus and most contain 1000-1200 ppm like the older CI-4/SL HDEOs. There is no need to be concerned that HDEOs do not contain enough ZDDP for flat tappet engines.
Phosphorus levels higher than 1400 ppm lead to long term wear and increased engine deposits. Levels over 2000 ppm lead to camshaft spalling. It doesn't matter if the excessive phosphorus is in racing oil or in HDEO.
Zinc ppm is typically slightly about 100-200 ppm higher than phosphorus. Why would you possibly want 5000 ppm of zinc in an already broken-in engine?
ACCCC Engine Oil Article
Its BOTH ZINC and PHOSPHORUS that are important.
"No need to be concerned that HDEO's don't contain enough" Says who? You???? Give me a break. The levels are reducing, the Staveley and Blackstone reports from TODAYS CJ-4's may not equal the reports of tomorrows CJ-4 reports. I have bought litterally MILLIONS of gallons of diesel oil and can make that statement from direct conversations with Chevron lubrication engineers. Even BITOG supports that. Don't assume that today (or should I say yesterday?) equals tomorrow.
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Re: New Summit Brand Oil for Flat Tappet Cams
[Re: 540challenger]
#436465
08/13/09 08:48 PM
08/13/09 08:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Product Description
Shell Rotella® T SAE 15W-40 With Advanced Soot Control is a premium quality, heavy-duty multigrade oil for all-season use in diesel-powered or a mix of gasoline- and diesel-powered equipment. It meets or exceeds the warranty and service requirements of virtually all diesel and gasoline engine manufacturers – for both newer and older engines. It is recommended especially for all on-highway service applications, and is also recommended for off-highway applications, especially where all-season use is desired.
Over the past 30 years, Shell Rotella® T has become the best selling heavy-duty multigrade oil in the U.S. Tightening of federal emission requirements have resulted in engine designs that require enhanced oil performance, Shell Rotella® T SAE 15W-40 is a leader in meeting leading OEM’s specifications as well as the enhanced oil performance requirements for API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, Caterpillar ECF-1, Cummins CES 20078, Mack EO-N Premium Plus 03, Mercedes-Benz 228.3 and Volvo VDS-3. With these credentials, Shell Rotella® T SAE 15W-40 represents “The Next Generation in Performance” and is the top-of-the-line heavy-duty engine oil recommendation.
Also formulated with Advanced Soot Control chemistry, Shell Rotella® T SAE 15W-40 and SAE 10W-30 deliver exceptional heavy-duty and soot control protection plus outstanding cold weather performance.
Applications
• Heavy-duty diesel and mixed fleets in all types of over-the-road service, including engines with EGR
• Recommended for diesel powered equipment including those powered by Caterpillar, Cummins, John Deere, Detroit Diesel, Mack, Mercedes-Benz, International, and Volvo engines in all types of service
• Off-highway applications where an all-season, universal engine oil is desired, such as construction, mining, logging and agricultural service
• Heavy-duty transmission applications requiring Allison C-4
• Gasoline engines, especially the hard-working engines of pick-up trucks, sport-utility vehicles (SUVs), and mini-vans
• Passenger cars, light trucks, farm equipment, fork lifts and assorted stationary equipment with automotive type LPG- or LNG-fueled engines where ashless or low-ash oils are not specified by the manufacturer
• Detroit Diesel Series 53, 71, and 92 engines operating in ambient temperatures below 0°F use Shell Rotella® T SAE 15W-40
Note: Shell Rotella® T SAE 40 single grade oil is the preferred choice for most Detroit Diesel 2-stroke
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Re: New Summit Brand Oil for Flat Tappet Cams
[Re: RacerGofKGB]
#436470
08/13/09 11:27 PM
08/13/09 11:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
Rug_Trucker
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Sometimes there is 3 threads going about oil. IMO it's time for an oil thread with a sticky.
"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
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