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Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? #377595 07/16/09 08:17 PM 07/16/09 08:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,721 Eugene, OR F FuryBoy OP top fuel
FuryBoy OP top fuel F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,721 Eugene, OR	I am looking to get some front and rear sway bars for my '70 Challenger. Currently I have Firm Feel 1.0 inch torsion bars and XHD springs out back. The only thing that scares me about the hotckis bars is they are 1 1/4 front, 3/4 rear. The rear seems about right, but wouldn't 1 1/8 inch be better balanced? This is just a small block street car that I want to handle as well as possible with stock components. No XV crap... Not that it's not good stuff, very well may be, but I just don't have the money to spend on that kind of thing... The hotchkis kits seem fairly complete... I was thinking about maybe just getting the rear bar and then a hellwig for the front since they are considerably cheaper...

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: FuryBoy] #377596 07/16/09 08:23 PM 07/16/09 08:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O 70Cuda383 Too Many Posts
70Cuda383 Too Many Posts Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O	I wouldn't be afraid of their stuff. I don't have any experience with their classic car stuff, but on the 97-04 Dakota's they had a killer kit that would lower the trucks, and add on sway bars that made them handle like a corvette. I don't have their sway bars, I just have their lowering springs on my dakota, but everyone I talk to that has their full kit--coil/leaf springs, shocks, and front/rear sways, loves how the hotchkis stuff made their trucks handle. I'm more than happy with how my big block dakota rides with their springs. Don't be afraid of them! Photobucket sucks

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: FuryBoy] #377597 07/16/09 08:45 PM 07/16/09 08:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,490 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,490 So Cal	Quote: I am looking to get some front and rear sway bars for my '70 Challenger. Currently I have Firm Feel 1.0 inch torsion bars and XHD springs out back. The only thing that scares me about the hotckis bars is they are 1 1/4 front, 3/4 rear. The rear seems about right, but wouldn't 1 1/8 inch be better balanced? This is just a small block street car that I want to handle as well as possible with stock components. No XV crap... Not that it's not good stuff, very well may be, but I just don't have the money to spend on that kind of thing... The hotchkis kits seem fairly complete... I was thinking about maybe just getting the rear bar and then a hellwig for the front since they are considerably cheaper... The hotchkis bar is hollow tube. You loose a little stifness with that. Some say a hollow 1 1/4 is like a 1 1/8 others say its like a 1 3/16". The geometry of the bar has an affect on the stiffness too. The fronts have the stock geometry, but the rear are of Hotchkis and Hellwig design respectively. So comparing the diameters of those rear bars to a stock bar is very unlikely to be accurate. Addco used to make a 1 1/4 solid bar. Heavy as heck. The balance would be fine with 1" T-bars. And the Hellwig and Hotchkis rear bars are adjustable to fine tune the balance to the type of track, racing, or personal driving style. Hotchkis is hosting an All Mopar Open house and Q & A this Saturday at there facility in Santa Fe Spring, Ca. If you have any specific questions, I might be able to ask them in the Q & A session. Read here. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post5287830

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: autoxcuda] #377598 07/16/09 09:16 PM 07/16/09 09:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,247 Someplace you aren't S SomeCarGuy I Live Here
SomeCarGuy I Live Here S Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,247 Someplace you aren't	There was an article a few years back in I think PHR that covered those bars. The before and after showed a great increase in handling, if you believe the media. I want my fair share

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: SomeCarGuy] #377599 07/16/09 10:06 PM 07/16/09 10:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,490 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,490 So Cal	Quote: There was an article a few years back in I think PHR that covered those bars. The before and after showed a great increase in handling, if you believe the media. Increase diameter sway bar WILL make a great increase in handling. About any brand will. But some weigh more than others, have stiffness adjustments, and have superior attachment hardware than others. The new Hellwig and Hotchkis rear bars have dog bone style end links. The traditional donut washer style bushing are very sensitive to where you place the frame bracket. If the bracket is of just a little the sway bar will have preload in it while the car is at rest. The dog bone style end links have freedom of fore and aft movement and will not bind in those directions. Also that design allows for adjustable rear sway bar stiffness. The three holes in the Helwig and Hotchkis rear sway bars offer three stiffness settings. The only bummer on those two rear bar designs is that they are axle mounted. That has addition unspring weight and sometimes makes it a pain to use jackstands under you axle tubes. But weight is reduced on those rear bars because they are hollow design. The Firm Feel rear sway bar is frame mounted like the original E-body rear sway bar were. The install is a little more involved but the finished result is very clean. They don't have the unsprung weight, but they don't offer an adjustment feature. The addco rear bar is axle mounts and has old style end donut end links. It's tricky to get the frame mount drilled in the right location so as not to bind up the end links. Tough to do because the frame is at a 45 degree angle to the ground at that place. I think that covers the major difference in the major rear sway bar offerings on the market now.

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: FuryBoy] #377600 07/17/09 12:22 AM 07/17/09 12:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,721 Eugene, OR F FuryBoy OP top fuel
FuryBoy OP top fuel F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,721 Eugene, OR	Thanks! Thats the best explanation I've had of the differences in the brands of sway bars! Very helpful! Now I am thinking definitely go with the Hotchkis front but I am almost thinking about going with a firm feel rear... My only concern as of now is if I change the rear springs, will I have to mount it differently?

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: FuryBoy] #377601 07/17/09 12:45 AM 07/17/09 12:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,490 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,490 So Cal	Quote: Thanks! Thats the best explanation I've had of the differences in the brands of sway bars! Very helpful! Now I am thinking definitely go with the Hotchkis front but I am almost thinking about going with a firm feel rear... My only concern as of now is if I change the rear springs, will I have to mount it differently? If you are worried about the balance of the car (understeer vs oversteer) I would get the Helwig or Hotchkis 3 way adjustable setup. But if something that looks stock is more important the firm feel one is the way to go. Changing the leaf spring or rear ride height should be fine with the Firm Feel setup. The link mount just behind the axle. If you really see an angle issue you can just saw off the tubular spacer bushing in the center of the end link to make it shorter. I doubt it. The issue with the donut end links is with the Addco rear bar setup were you have to drill the holes in the 45 degree kick up of the rear frame. It's hard to figure the right spot. Last edited by autoxcuda; 07/17/09 12:53 AM.

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: autoxcuda] #377602 07/17/09 01:25 AM 07/17/09 01:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,721 Eugene, OR F FuryBoy OP top fuel
FuryBoy OP top fuel F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,721 Eugene, OR	I think I will go all hotchkis then... It doesn't need to look correct or anything... Thanks!

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: FuryBoy] #377603 07/17/09 01:37 AM 07/17/09 01:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 6,516 Santa Cruz, California L Lefty master
Lefty master L Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 6,516 Santa Cruz, California	I have a set of Hotchkis bars on my 66 Coronet. They work very well. The rear bar is adjustable for tuning over/under steer.

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: Lefty] #377604 08/01/09 09:47 PM 08/01/09 09:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 102 Virginia M MACDiesel member
MACDiesel member M Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 102 Virginia	Anyone ever try the Summit bars? They pretty cheap, but are they cheap?... -1967 Belvedere II 440/4speed

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: MACDiesel] #377605 08/01/09 10:36 PM 08/01/09 10:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,490 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,490 So Cal	Quote: Anyone ever try the Summit bars? They pretty cheap, but are they cheap?... You would be better off with a rear adjustable hollow swaybar and a hollow front sway bar with good attachment point THAN tubular lower control arms and strut rods. At least save the money from the tubular lower control arms and put it toward sway bars or shocks. This is what I wrote above about the differences in REAR SWAY BARS: Increase diameter sway bar WILL make a great increase in handling. About any brand will do and function. But some weigh more than others, have stiffness adjustments, and have more acceptable attachment hardware than others. The new Hellwig and Hotchkis rear bars have dog bone style end links. The traditional donut washer style bushing are very sensitive to where you place the frame bracket. If the bracket is off just a little the sway bar will have preload in it while the car is at rest. The dog bone style end links have freedom of fore and aft movement and will not bind in those directions. Also that design allows for adjustable rear sway bar stiffness. The three holes in the Helwig and Hotchkis rear sway bars offer three stiffness settings. The only bummer on those two rear bar designs is that they are axle mounted. That has addition unspring weight and sometimes makes it a pain to use jackstands under you axle tubes. But weight is reduced on those rear bars because they are hollow design. The Firm Feel rear sway bar is frame mounted like the original E-body rear sway bar were. The install is a little more involved but the finished result is very clean. They don't have the unsprung weight, but they don't offer an adjustment feature. The addco rear bar is axle mounts and has old style end donut end links. It's tricky to get the frame mount drilled in the right location so as not to bind up the end links. Tough to do because the frame is at a 45 degree angle to the ground at that place. I think that covers the major difference in the major rear sway bar offerings on the market now. Differences in FRONT SWAY BARS: Most of the differences are in the sway bar attachement setups. The Addco's front have really raunchy sway bar to k-frame attachment points. The have some bracket mounted too close to the center that has the sway bar bushing strap perpendicular to the ground. Makes for bad ground clearance and does not support the twisting action of the sway bar. You could buy the Energy sway bar mount and solve this for $45: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ENS-5-5135G/ The end links to lower control arm L bracket that goes off the shock bolt are weak and not the best fitting too on the addco's. The FFI, Hellwig, and Hotchkis fronts have very good attachment hardware and everything lines up. The Hellwig and Hotchkis are hollow. The hollow bars will save at least 5 lbs off the front of you car. About like using a big block aluminum water pump housing. Bottom line, price the Hellwig and Hotchkis tubular front and adjustable rears. Last edited by autoxcuda; 08/01/09 11:32 PM.

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: autoxcuda] #377606 08/02/09 12:15 AM 08/02/09 12:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 102 Virginia M MACDiesel member
MACDiesel member M Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 102 Virginia	I'm sold. For discusion sake, have you seen the Comp Engineering universal bars? They work like the XV's and mount through the frame. They're splined NASCAR style. -1967 Belvedere II 440/4speed

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: MACDiesel] #377607 08/02/09 12:33 AM 08/02/09 12:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,490 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,490 So Cal	Quote: I'm sold. For discusion sake, have you seen the Comp Engineering universal bars? They work like the XV's and mount through the frame. They're splined NASCAR style. Lot of fabrication you'd be on your own to fit. A big fiasco. At some point you have to say when is enough. On a stock 66-69 K-frame you'd have to put in front of the K-member and you'd really have to rug up something for the support at the ends. I don't think it would be pretty. Not pretty at all. On a 70-72B, 70-74, and 73-76A body k frame it would be easier. Still a lot of work. There are other things that just come first, IMHO.

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: autoxcuda] #377608 08/02/09 12:43 AM 08/02/09 12:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 102 Virginia M MACDiesel member
MACDiesel member M Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 102 Virginia	Yeah, I figured. Save those for the race cars. -1967 Belvedere II 440/4speed

Re: Hotchkis SwayBar kits... Anyone try them? [Re: MACDiesel] #377609 08/02/09 08:23 AM 08/02/09 08:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,968 WI Dcuda69 master
Dcuda69 master Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,968 WI	I put a Hellwig rear on my A-body....nice piece! I had a couple questions during install,so I called. 2 rings and a human answered the phone. I was transferred to the tech dept. and again my call was answered. The guy I talked to had obviously done these installs personally and answered all my questions without hesitation! Great customer support!Great product! Made a big diff. in my car! I will be calling again for the big frt bar!!I think a cuople guys from Hellwig hang out over on FABO.

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