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Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? UPDATE #337281
06/03/09 05:13 PM 06/03/09 05:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,672
Virginia
HemiStan Offline OP
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I had the intake off the Hemi today and just by chance I happened to look at one of the lobes on my cam. After I started investigating, several lobes looked like this one. I'm assuming this cam is about to start deteriorating quickly.

This engine has about 3,000 miles on it. I'm pretty sure I took all of the necessary precations when I put it together. I checked lifter rotation in all of the bores, broke the cam in with the just the outer springs installed, used a moly based cam break-in lubricant, high zinc oil, etc.

This is a Bullet Racing cam with a mid 600 lift with PPPC lifters. Has anyone had any issues with either of these products? Can anyone recommend a cam manufacturer?

Thanks.

Stan

5270657-P1010562.JPG (416 downloads)
Last edited by fourspd340; 06/09/09 11:31 AM.
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: HemiStan] #337282
06/03/09 06:07 PM 06/03/09 06:07 PM
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Oakland, MI
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dizuster Offline
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Can you give us the exact cam specs? Might just be aggressive lobes.

Does it get a lot of idle time, or street use?

I'm not familliar with PPPC lifters. Did bullet recommend them?

You have to be careful swaping lifter manufactures as the crown radius needs to match the lobe pitch angle for rotation. It's possible if it's got too much pitch and not enough crown it could have rotated by hand, but when loaded caused the lobe failure.

Just my

Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: dizuster] #337283
06/03/09 06:16 PM 06/03/09 06:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,499
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
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Definetely call Bullet and email them the pic. I'm sure they will want to know all the factors that could contribute, like at what lift is coil bind, etc. Good luck with it, Joel

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Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: Hemi_Joel] #337284
06/03/09 07:27 PM 06/03/09 07:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,672
Virginia
HemiStan Offline OP
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Thanks for the responses. Here are some of the cam specs:

Duration at .050 283

Lobe lift .4250

Duration at .020 313

Gross valve lift .667 Intake and .646 exhaust


Quote:

Does it get a lot of idle time, or street use?

Both, actually. I've been driving it around alot.

I'm going to tear into it on Friday and check out a few things. I'm also going to give Bullet a call. I spoke with them at length prior to installing the cam. Hopefully we can figure something out.

Thanks.

Stan
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: HemiStan] #337285
06/03/09 08:26 PM 06/03/09 08:26 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
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The only cam I have ever lost a lobe on, was a Bullet-a couple of years ago. It didn't make it through break-in. They were very helpful-sent me another set-up for $100, I think. Every cam since then has come from Scott Brown, with no problems. And I think Scott has used several different cam grinders the last few years. Come to think of it, I think the Bullet cam was from Ray Barton. Does that sound right? It's been a few engines back and I loose track.

Master, again and still
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: DaveRS23] #337286
06/03/09 08:35 PM 06/03/09 08:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,672
Virginia
HemiStan Offline OP
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Dave,
That Bullet cam and PPPC lifters did come from Ray Barton's. I got them in 2006. Interesting.

Stan
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: HemiStan] #337287
06/03/09 10:03 PM 06/03/09 10:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
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Im glad you posted this. I have the Identical cam on the self for my Hemi. I picked it up from Barton last fall/winter. I will try to scan the Cam card, which is just a piece of paper copied from the original.
Recc lash is as tight as I have ever seen which is .016/.017 HOT.
LSA is a 109 BTW

Sorry to hear about your troubles, I have a set of EDM Howards lifters I plan to try them with.
So I would like to know how you like the cam, aside from the trouble your having.
How does it idle?
How do you have it installed?
Care to give out some Engine specs?
I am using a new World block 4.5x 4.5 for 572 inch, 13:1 compression, this cam, Cross ram setup, and CNC ported heads that go 460CFM.

[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: Bob_Coomer] #337288
06/03/09 10:45 PM 06/03/09 10:45 PM

A
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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A



Talk to Mark Chapone at Bullet..He is their engineer..He is great to work with, he as been grinding me cams for quite a while...He has found some good HP for me over the conventional grinds.
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: HemiStan] #337289
06/04/09 03:47 AM 06/04/09 03:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
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Gainesville,FL
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goldmember Offline
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goldmember  Offline
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Gainesville,FL
I've dealt with Bullet cams many times since Ultradyne closed it's doors. No problems with the quality of the product but flat tappets can be a problem and no company is immune.Can you go with a street roller? It's funny that both an owner of Bullet cams and a sales person(formerly of comp cams) recommend and sell so many of the Ultradyne lobes.Guess they work pretty good for a certain Mopar pro stocker as well,even if they are ground in VA. Rumour is that UD lobes out sell the Bullet lobes(I won't name my source). I go back to the late 70's with Memphis cam companies and have many fond memories from Joe Lunati himself spending time digging up a free t-shirt for a certain 16 year old street rat to Harold Brookshire and the time and commitment to his craft and many more that most have never had the pleasure of meeting.I'll be dropping in on some old friends this summer. Sorry to get off topic it's late...

Last edited by goldmember; 06/04/09 03:56 AM.
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: goldmember] #337290
06/04/09 06:30 AM 06/04/09 06:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,672
Virginia
HemiStan Offline OP
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Virginia
Quote:

So I would like to know how you like the cam, aside from the trouble your having.
How does it idle?
How do you have it installed?
Care to give out some Engine specs?



Honestly, I was very pleased with the cam. My engine is a 472 with 10.5 CR, 4 speed with 4.88 gears. I'm running a Weiand tunnel ram with a set of '68 vintage iron heads that have had some work done to them over the years. I installed the cam as per the cam card. I'm currently running 24 degrees initial advance and 35 total. I think it idles fine. As a matter of fact, that engine ran great. I would have to shift it at about 6,000 RPM's because it would actually start to break the rear tires free as the RPM's would increase (Hoosier 295/60-15's). It pulled very hard.

I have to work today but I plan on tearing into it more on Friday. I'll probably talk to Bullet on Monday. I'm more concerned with finding out if I did something on my end to cause this failure. Hopefully with the info I gather and after talking to Bullet, we can come up with a conclusion.

Stan

5271857-Tires001.jpg (283 downloads)
Last edited by fourspd340; 06/04/09 06:35 AM.
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: HemiStan] #337291
06/04/09 06:41 AM 06/04/09 06:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,262
Netherlands
72Challenger Offline
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72Challenger  Offline
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I have the exact same cam in my 528 Hemi and after a couple of years street/strip use I'm still happy with it. Idles very lumpy and pulls like a raped ape. Got it from Barton too when I assembled the Hemi in 2004/2005. They did advice (and I did) me getting shubeck lifters for it because of the streetduty as in idle at some traffic lights and stuff like that.

'
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: 72Challenger] #337292
06/04/09 07:50 AM 06/04/09 07:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
patrick  Offline
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Grand Haven, MI
as a tangent, I'm looking at getting a hydraulic roller reground with bullet, anyone have any issues with their roller cams?

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Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: patrick] #337293
06/04/09 04:25 PM 06/04/09 04:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
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Gainesville,FL
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goldmember Offline
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They grind hyd rollers as well as other type cams for others that are well known on this site,simply repackaged and sold under a different label. Same with regrinds.I've had a couple of hyd rollers reground and found no problem,other than being stuck with the factory 114lsa.Some applications this is not a problem.
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: goldmember] #337294
06/04/09 05:36 PM 06/04/09 05:36 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,864
IN
Irun5snd8th Offline
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IN
Man thats alot of duration at .050 for a flat tappet cam.

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Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: Irun5snd8th] #337295
06/05/09 09:09 PM 06/05/09 09:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,672
Virginia
HemiStan Offline OP
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Virginia
OK. I pulled the engine out today and tore it down. I double checked all of of my spring heights, etc. again and everything was within spec.


Nearly all of the lobes show some abnormal wear. The front half of the cam seems to be worse than the rear of the cam.

When I built it, I started this engine and broke the cam in on a home made test run stand. I then changed the oil, checked the valve lash, and installed the inner valve springs. I have a magnetic drain plug and when I changed the oil I did notice what I thought might be an abnormal amount of debris on the drain plug. I also cut open the filter and saw a like amount of debris.

Anyways, the valve lash was good to go so I pulled the pan to take a look and everything seemed fine. I put some fresh oil in it and put it into the car. I changed the oil and cut open the filter about every 300 miles for the first 1200 miles to keep and eye on it and it always looked good. I just cut open the filter tonight and it looked perfect. The valve lash was good and the PPPC lifters looked like brand new.

I seriously think that the cam went bad on the first few minutes of run time and has been that way for 3000 miles. I can't believe how well the lifters look. Anyways, I'm going to pull the pan this weekend and take a look at the bearings.

Stan
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: HemiStan] #337296
06/05/09 09:54 PM 06/05/09 09:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
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Quote:

OK. I pulled the engine out today and tore it down. I double checked all of of my spring heights, etc. again and everything was within spec.


Nearly all of the lobes show some abnormal wear. The front half of the cam seems to be worse than the rear of the cam.

When I built it, I started this engine and broke the cam in on a home made test run stand. I then changed the oil, checked the valve lash, and installed the inner valve springs. I have a magnetic drain plug and when I changed the oil I did notice what I thought might be an abnormal amount of debris on the drain plug. I also cut open the filter and saw a like amount of debris.

Anyways, the valve lash was good to go so I pulled the pan to take a look and everything seemed fine. I put some fresh oil in it and put it into the car. I changed the oil and cut open the filter about every 300 miles for the first 1200 miles to keep and eye on it and it always looked good. I just cut open the filter tonight and it looked perfect. The valve lash was good and the PPPC lifters looked like brand new.

I seriously think that the cam went bad on the first few minutes of run time and has been that way for 3000 miles. I can't believe how well the lifters look. Anyways, I'm going to pull the pan this weekend and take a look at the bearings.

Stan



The fact that the cam is worn evenly would lead me to believe there was a underlie'n problem for the root cause.
What does the lifters look like? Usually the lifters doesn't turn in the bore's and the cam eats the lifters out like a grinder.

Post some pics up when you get a chance...

How much vacuum would you guess the engine pulls with that cam?
Do you plan to down the engine for a good cleanup?
later
Bob

[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: Bob_Coomer] #337297
06/09/09 11:31 AM 06/09/09 11:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,672
Virginia
HemiStan Offline OP
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OK. I finally got some time to do some more work on this. Here is a photo of a couple of the lifters. I'm not an expert at reading these but these look to be in excellent shape. All of the lifters look like this. If anyone notices anything odd, please let me know. They all have a nice crown on them.

I spoke with Richard at Bullet and with PPPC yesterday to try and figure something out. They both recommended Joe Gibbs break-in oil so that is what I will be using when it goes back together. Bullet is going to re-grind the cam for me but I have a mid .500 lift Sig Erson cam that I am going to put into it for the time being. I also have a new set of heads and intake that I will be using as well.

Although I wasn't able to definitively put my finger on a specific root cause, I'm leaning torwards the initial break-in. I used a moly based cam lubricant, a bottle of GM EOS, and Valvoline diesel oil (CI-4 rated, which I was told had good zinc properties). Anyways, with that cam and springs, I just don't think that oil was up to the task.

One lesson learned is to always uses a high quality oil filter. Even though my cam was chewed up, the inside of the engine was spotless.

If anyone has any thoughts, please feel free to post them.

Thanks.

Stan

5281753-HemiCam003.jpg (848 downloads)
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: HemiStan] #337298
06/09/09 11:38 AM 06/09/09 11:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
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Bob_Coomer  Offline
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Strange all the lifters look good. On this note, I would suspect a problem with the cam, finish and or hardening treatment. How many lobes were rounded like this?

[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: Bob_Coomer] #337299
06/09/09 12:40 PM 06/09/09 12:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Vacherie, Louisiana
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SuperStocker Offline
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Vacherie, Louisiana
You should just wait for the bullet cam to return and put it back in. It won't take them more than a couple of days to get it back to you. Bullet cams customer service has always been A+++ for me. If it is their fault, they will most definitely make it good.

Re: Bullet Racing Cams-any issues? [Re: HemiStan] #337300
06/09/09 07:02 PM 06/09/09 07:02 PM
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Oakland, MI
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dizuster Offline
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Quote:

OK. Although I wasn't able to definitively put my finger on a specific root cause, I'm leaning torwards the initial break-in. I used a moly based cam lubricant, a bottle of GM EOS, and Valvoline diesel oil (CI-4 rated, which I was told had good zinc properties). Anyways, with that cam and springs, I just don't think that oil was up to the task.



We use diesel oil on all of our flat tappet cam break in's. Never had a problem with one since we started using it. With the lobes lubed up good, diesel oil, and EOS, I highly doubt that it was the oil.

My

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