BB rocker arms
#3284162
01/22/25 06:13 AM
01/22/25 06:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,728 Abilene, Texas
fastmark
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,728
Abilene, Texas
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I’ve got a customer needing adjustable rockers on his 440 Source stealth alum heads. The last build with hydraulic rollers and aluminum rockers from Mancini were pretty noisy. A google search turns up lots of differ choices. I’ve never had any issues with my TA rockers on a street car with a stock shaft. It is banana grooved though. Anyone got any advice on which ones to stay away from? I see cheap ones from speedmaster. He won’t go for the $1000 set from RAS, I’m sure. It won’t have high seat pressures but probably a flat hydraulic lifter. I’ve liked to old Isky designs as long as is one a hardened shaft. Seems to me that bushed is better than roller for oiling and street use. Any suggestions is appreciated.
Last edited by fastmark; 01/23/25 02:57 PM.
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: fastmark]
#3284189
01/22/25 09:58 AM
01/22/25 09:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,228 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,228
New York
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bushed is better than roller for oiling and street use
yes
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: polyspheric]
#3284201
01/22/25 10:19 AM
01/22/25 10:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,940 Pattison Texas
CSK
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master
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Pattison Texas
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440 source just came out with some like the oem that are adjustable for the big block
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: CSK]
#3284213
01/22/25 10:41 AM
01/22/25 10:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,217 Western Md.
skicker
"The Champ"
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"The Champ"
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,217
Western Md.
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I've been running the new 440 source ones all summer... Solid lifter old camshaft with a 314 duration and 574 lift... No issues whatsoever and they have been ran hard a good bit...
...FAFO...
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: AndyF]
#3284396
01/23/25 05:22 AM
01/23/25 05:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,728 Abilene, Texas
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Good luck. Good rocker arms are now super expensive. Cheap rocker arms are often a problem just waiting to happen. You can cheat a little bit if it is a low RPM street engine that doesn't have much spring pressure but you still need to be careful. The old nodular iron design was good for that application but Isky and Crane both stopped making them. We usually go with Comp steel rocker arms for the street guys and T&D for the race guys. Those two designs both work really well but they are a lot more expensive now than they used to be. Thanks Andy. The problems I’ve seen in the past with both Crane and Isky were when they were put on stock shafts. Iron to steel oem was just asking for trouble. So all these cheap ones scare me. The comp ones are out of stock but 440 source makes a new roller tipped steel that is bushed that looks nice. Should I be worried about the shafts and buy better shafts with bananas grooves?
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: fastmark]
#3284415
01/23/25 09:20 AM
01/23/25 09:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,833 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
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master
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Posts: 2,833
Stuttgart, Arkansas
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You didn't say how much cam he is running, but I get the impression he's not trying to build a Pro Mod engine. Since he has Stealth heads those stainless roller rockers from 440 Source would probably be a good bet. The price is right, the quality looks good. Sure, we don't have 10 years of history with them running .750" lift cams turning 8,000 rpms, but I get the impression that's not what your customer is wanting to do. I mocked up the same setup with stock pushrods and hydraulic lifters and it looked ok to me. By the way, I prefer bushed rockers also.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: Stanton]
#3284437
01/23/25 11:00 AM
01/23/25 11:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,132 Yes
sixpakdodge
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,132
Yes
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Let's clear something up about those old Isky and Crane rockers. The issue was not so much that they weren't bushed and it was "iron on steel", in fact the early 413 and 426 Max Wedge motors all came with unbushed iron adjustable rockers. The "root" of the problem was the thin stock shafts that went oval after they'd been off and on a couple times or were overtightened and subsequently caused the rockers to bind and gall the shafts and rockers. The same would have occurred had they been bushed. The solution back in the day was simple and inexpensive - you bought a set of TRW replacement shafts which were both thicker and machined (which stock shafts were not) and rumout had it they were worth 10 HP just because they were more stable. Even today, with a good set of shafts there is no need to shy away from a nice set of Iskys or Cranes for anything but a high lift race cam. This is an excellent post. I have a set of iron Crane's that have been on the same engine since 1985. Zero issues with galling. Melling makes a stock replacement shaft that is more than twice the thickness of a stock B/RB shaft. I just swapped out a set of Crane Gold's that had stock shafts to the Melling shafts for an engine I built last year.
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: Stanton]
#3284495
01/23/25 02:53 PM
01/23/25 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,728 Abilene, Texas
fastmark
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OP
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Posts: 6,728
Abilene, Texas
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Let's clear something up about those old Isky and Crane rockers. The issue was not so much that they weren't bushed and it was "iron on steel", in fact the early 413 and 426 Max Wedge motors all came with unbushed iron adjustable rockers. The "root" of the problem was the thin stock shafts that went oval after they'd been off and on a couple times or were overtightened and subsequently caused the rockers to bind and gall the shafts and rockers. The same would have occurred had they been bushed. The solution back in the day was simple and inexpensive - you bought a set of TRW replacement shafts which were both thicker and machined (which stock shafts were not) and rumout had it they were worth 10 HP just because they were more stable. Even today, with a good set of shafts there is no need to shy away from a nice set of Iskys or Cranes for anything but a high lift race cam. That makes sense. The ones I’ve seen problems with are all just placed on stock shafts. Good info.
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: rickseeman]
#3284500
01/23/25 03:00 PM
01/23/25 03:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,728 Abilene, Texas
fastmark
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You didn't say how much cam he is running, but I get the impression he's not trying to build a Pro Mod engine. Since he has Stealth heads those stainless roller rockers from 440 Source would probably be a good bet. The price is right, the quality looks good. Sure, we don't have 10 years of history with them running .750" lift cams turning 8,000 rpms, but I get the impression that's not what your customer is wanting to do. I mocked up the same setup with stock pushrods and hydraulic lifters and it looked ok to me. By the way, I prefer bushed rockers also. Rick, is the shaft in the picture the one that comes with 440 source rockers? It looks good and thick.
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3284613
01/23/25 11:19 PM
01/23/25 11:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,334 Puyallup, WA
LemonWedge
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,334
Puyallup, WA
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I actually experienced a lot of years of solid performance out of a set of ProComp bushed stainless steel rockers. They were on a solid flat tappet setup though with relatively low spring pressures. They looked a lot like the 440Source stainless ones. For anything less than 450 lbs, I’d feel pretty good with those. For anything with more than 500 - 550 lbs of open pressure, don’t scrimp on rockers.
Last edited by LemonWedge; 01/25/25 03:12 PM.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready. 468” Lowdeck MaxWedge - 10.42 @ 128
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: fastmark]
#3284679
01/24/25 11:39 AM
01/24/25 11:39 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,334 Puyallup, WA
LemonWedge
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,334
Puyallup, WA
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My experience with the set I show above was also on a set of Stealth heads. The geometry was pretty good. It was on a solid flat tappet, so I did adjustments annually; They never moved. That combo saw lots of race duty, shifting at 6200. I see them currently on eBag for around $200. Mild Hydraulic cam….. I’d go that direction again in a heartbeat with no reservations. Spend the saved $500 somewhere else.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready. 468” Lowdeck MaxWedge - 10.42 @ 128
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: fastmark]
#3284726
01/24/25 02:01 PM
01/24/25 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,418 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,418
A gulag near you.
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Every brand of Mopar hydraulic roller lifters I have used, not many sets, have sounded a lot like the old SB Chevy .030-.030 Duntov solid lifer cams and lifters This thread is about ROCKERS I actually mentioned I was using flat tippets because the last set of hyd rollers lifters were too noisy for my customer. Reading it almost sounds like 2 different builds , but good info on the noise. I wonder what is actually making the noise ?
Mainstream Media is the new Pravda
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Re: BB rocker arms
[Re: JohnRR]
#3284740
01/24/25 02:35 PM
01/24/25 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,767 Eagle, Idaho
Neil
The Doctor is in.
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The Doctor is in.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,767
Eagle, Idaho
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I bought a car with an already rebuilt engine that came with roller tip rocker arms, and they made some light clattering noise you could hear with the hood open at idle. I later put cast aluminum valve covers on it, and those rocker arms really made noise after that. It was like a sewing machine buzzing sound at steady throttle from inside the car. Motor ran perfectly the whole time I had it, but it just made obnoxious noises at cruise speeds. Some of the noise that comes with any roller valvetrain parts I don't think can fully be eliminated, and aluminum valve covers can definitely magnify the volume.
If you watch some of the YouTube videos by Powell Machine, and some others, they talk about certain types of cam lobe profiles that are out there that can make life harder on roller lifters as well so maybe that is where some of these noise complaints arise from?
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