Aluminum main cap designs
#3281219
01/07/25 04:55 PM
01/07/25 04:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,479 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
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Another thread was started recently asking about aluminum main caps for big blocks, but I don't want to hijack that one simply cuz I want to change the direction of the topic a bit.
The first aluminum main caps of which I am aware were / are what Indy Cylinder Head came out with in the '90s, IIRC. They're fabricated from aluminum plate (not sure using what material type) and certainly appear "beefy". However, their design results in a variety of stress concentrations (a.k.a. stress raisers / risers) due to the sharp edges & corners left during machining.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3281221
01/07/25 04:59 PM
01/07/25 04:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,479 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
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The design that Best Machine and BCR / SDC use for their respective standard-replacement caps eliminates some of the stress concentrations found in the Indy design, but still leaves some primarily around the mounting surfaces for the studs' washers & nuts. BCR / SDC also has a different style cap for use with their specific girdle, but it shares the same characteristics where they're held down. I believe the Best Machine caps are (were) made from 7075 heat-treated aluminum, but don't know what the BCR / SDC caps use.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3281224
01/07/25 05:01 PM
01/07/25 05:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,479 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
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The style of caps which may be manufactured by Stanke Motorsports and also sold by 440 Source and Mancini Racing take this a step further in that the the mounting surfaces for the studs' washers & nuts is basically flat with a smooth(er) transition into the bridge area. I believe these are made from 7075 heat-treated aluminum, as well.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3281227
01/07/25 05:07 PM
01/07/25 05:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,479 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
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My backup block was machined years ago with a set of the Indy Cylinder Head main caps because that's what I could find at the time. However, my concerns increased about their durability over time in a street/strip application, so I worked with Michael Doty (Doty Manufacturing, Inc.) later to modify the caps to remove the obvious stress concentrations mentioned above.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3281229
01/07/25 05:08 PM
01/07/25 05:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,479 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
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The drawback I see is that we've reduced some of the "bulk" in the main part of the cap. However, I'll be using them with a "budget" girdle w/ hope it's a Band-Aid that adds stability in the same approach as another Moparts member has done with their build that used the standard BCR / SDC caps. Pic below is of that build, not mine (which has not been started as of this post).
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3281238
01/07/25 05:38 PM
01/07/25 05:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,111 Here
jcc
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I would pointedly question the need to design in a threaded blind hole in likely the highest stress area of a main cap. I suppose a lot depends on what forces and vectors are in play that a girdle as pictured is tasked with removing or reducing. I'd lean towards no center threaded gridle bolt and leave the cap robust unthreaded and rely on the main studs to help locate the cap.
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: jcc]
#3281257
01/07/25 07:01 PM
01/07/25 07:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,139 MN
JERICOGTX
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I’d like to see the Stanley caps installed in a block, to see how #5 clears the rear main seal.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: jcc]
#3281341
01/08/25 09:02 AM
01/08/25 09:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,629 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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I would pointedly question the need to design in a threaded blind hole in likely the highest stress area of a main cap. I suppose a lot depends on what forces and vectors are in play that a girdle as pictured is tasked with removing or reducing. I'd lean towards no center threaded gridle bolt and leave the cap robust unthreaded and rely on the main studs to help locate the cap. I believe it's there to aid in removal using a slide hammer.
CHIP '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '70 'cuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75....................FOR SALE '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax '17 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#3281354
01/08/25 09:43 AM
01/08/25 09:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,139 MN
JERICOGTX
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I would pointedly question the need to design in a threaded blind hole in likely the highest stress area of a main cap. I suppose a lot depends on what forces and vectors are in play that a girdle as pictured is tasked with removing or reducing. I'd lean towards no center threaded gridle bolt and leave the cap robust unthreaded and rely on the main studs to help locate the cap. I believe it's there to aid in removal using a slide hammer. I made a bridge, that removes the cap evenly. My INDY block uses billet steel caps, and it's the only way to remove them. My bridge is setup to do aluminum caps in a iron block as well.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: LA360]
#3281363
01/08/25 10:11 AM
01/08/25 10:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,183 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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I'd imagine with any of these designs, that the block would most likely fail before the caps. Good point. In my uneducated opinion, the best way to help a stock block would be a very extensive scurt extension, on the order of two to four inches. Increase the pan bolt size if possible, and now you would have a rather large, thick girdle that transfers loads to the pan rail in virtucal as well as horizontal directions. I assume the cost of this would be quite high, and only be worth it in a case where a stock block was required. Resleeving the whole block with the best sleeves available would be on the list as well. After that, head stud strength might be the next problem to look at. The cost would be crazy high except for someone with machinery to build his own out of aluminum plate. Pan would obviously have to be a custom unit as well.
Last edited by gregsdart; 01/08/25 10:13 AM.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#3281366
01/08/25 10:22 AM
01/08/25 10:22 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,111 Here
jcc
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I would pointedly question the need to design in a threaded blind hole in likely the highest stress area of a main cap. I suppose a lot depends on what forces and vectors are in play that a girdle as pictured is tasked with removing or reducing. I'd lean towards no center threaded gridle bolt and leave the cap robust unthreaded and rely on the main studs to help locate the cap. I believe it's there to aid in removal using a slide hammer. I agree, and I assume then already being there the girdle just utilized them. But being placed at the worst location strength wise is the kicker here. So, it that is a 3/8 thread, would 2 1/4" threads spaced a apart as possible achieve the same result with the mentioned "bridge" with little downside. However, I'm not reading many/any reports here of any Alum caps failure to begin with, of any design. 8,75" rear caps have the same design shortcoming IMO by locating the adjuster retainer bolt dead center of the arc IMO.
Last edited by jcc; 01/08/25 10:55 AM.
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: JERICOGTX]
#3281378
01/08/25 10:51 AM
01/08/25 10:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,629 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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I Live Here
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I would pointedly question the need to design in a threaded blind hole in likely the highest stress area of a main cap. I suppose a lot depends on what forces and vectors are in play that a girdle as pictured is tasked with removing or reducing. I'd lean towards no center threaded gridle bolt and leave the cap robust unthreaded and rely on the main studs to help locate the cap. I believe it's there to aid in removal using a slide hammer. I made a bridge, that removes the cap evenly. My INDY block uses billet steel caps, and it's the only way to remove them. My bridge is setup to do aluminum caps in a iron block as well. I did the same thing. The main caps in my KB block are a really tight fit. I've seen people use a slide hammer, but I like the smooth even pulling of a bridge better.
CHIP '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '70 'cuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75....................FOR SALE '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax '17 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#3281406
01/08/25 12:49 PM
01/08/25 12:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,728 Motor City
6PKRTSE
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I have seen caps break due to the slide hammer tapped hole. I prefer the bridged method also with caps with no threaded slide hammer hole.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: LA360]
#3281435
01/08/25 01:59 PM
01/08/25 01:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,479 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
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I'd imagine with any of these designs, that the block would most likely fail before the caps. I'd agree, if I wasn't aware already of some aluminum cap failures over the years
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3281436
01/08/25 02:01 PM
01/08/25 02:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,479 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
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Can people who use a bridge device(?) to remove caps please show pics? Thx
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3281441
01/08/25 02:12 PM
01/08/25 02:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,111 Here
jcc
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My guess was it was a robust bar long enough to span the pan rails with threaded holes each end w/long enough threaded bolts and a center hole to grab the cap, and the end bolts lift off the cap as the bolts are turned down is what I imagined. The pics others share will tell.
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Re: Aluminum main cap designs
[Re: mr_340]
#3284152
01/22/25 12:42 AM
01/22/25 12:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
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jcc
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All alum strengths are very temp dependent. The two tables you share indicates I believe 7075 at 312F still exceeds 2024 tensile strength by more than 10%, so not sure what point you are making here. I don't know enough to debate the better choice of alloy for two very seemingly different load/fatigue applications, rocker vs main caps.
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