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I need some clutch help #3274495
12/06/24 08:12 PM
12/06/24 08:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,394
Madison Wi
NTOLERANCE Offline OP
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NTOLERANCE  Offline OP
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Madison Wi
Quick run down on my car

65 Coronet 383, liberty proshift 23 spline trans. Dana 60, 4.10, power lock
1350 u joints, chrome moly drive shaft. Scatter shield.

Engine is a true 10:1 383, forged trw pistons, iron heads, 2.14/1.81 valves, crown 32002 solid cam 500lift / 300 duration
Tunnel Ram with dual 450 holleys. ( I have dual compucar fixed 100 hp plate nitrous setup but it isn't plumbed yet)

66 up k frame , Mini tubbed, relocated super stock springs with afco sliders 325/50 Hoosier drag radials.

Clutch is a vintage (80's era) Zoom 11" borg and beck. Clutch was new when installed

I just got the car together and running/driving this fall. After resisting the urge to beat on it while getting things broken in for several hundred miles, I decided to give it a fairly hard launch. Clutch slipped / smoked. Zero tire spin. So I drove it some more. Maybe not enough heat cycling? At any rate couple hundred miles later I tried a 1-2 power shift. Clutch slipped/smoked again.

I checked the free play at the clutch fork and have about 3/8?? Inch of movement at the rod end. So it's not hanging up.

I don't think it's going to get any better.
I really think I have a crap clutch. Either the 40 year old disc material is deteriorated or the pressure plate is not providing the proper clamping force or as I have been reading recently Zoom is junk.
So I'm going to replace it this winter


Being that I have a fairly heavy car, sticky tires, relatively decent hooking rear suspension, and 400-500 HP, I'm looking to replace the clutch with something that will be a bit softer on my 23 spline trans.

I understand that clutches like a soft lock or a twin disc can take some of the shock load off the trans/drive line. But I've read some poor reviews of some of these with disc plates warping.

If this was your car what clutch would you use?

18 spline isn't in the cards right now.

Video of the car

https://youtu.be/cHGAhxWBezU?si=lCFhKVFXfTYFFUOw


Last edited by NTOLERANCE; 12/06/24 08:22 PM.

I used to care but....... things have changed
Re: I need some clutch help [Re: NTOLERANCE] #3274504
12/06/24 08:46 PM
12/06/24 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,141
Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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Omaha Ne
I'm a centerforce fan. I would encourage a new flywheel with the clutch and dialing in the bell housing. You don't have to buy a CF flywheel but do get a Known brand. I have installed MANY over the last 20+ years with only one issue. They had packaged the wrong sized disc for the PP tsk tsk That crapped up 3 cutch cables before we pulled the trans and found the problem. They replaced the Clutch, PP, and bearings but nothing else 👎
As po'd as I was I stayed with them as all other installs were problem free. twocents beer

Re: I need some clutch help [Re: TJP] #3274505
12/06/24 08:56 PM
12/06/24 08:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,394
Madison Wi
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Originally Posted by TJP
I'm a centerforce fan. I would encourage a new flywheel with the clutch and dialing in the bell housing. You don't have to buy a CF flywheel but do get a Known brand. I have installed MANY over the last 20+ years with only one issue. They had packaged the wrong sized disc for the PP tsk tsk That crapped up 3 cutch cables before we pulled the trans and found the problem. They replaced the Clutch, PP, and bearings but nothing else 👎
As po'd as I was I stayed with them as all other installs were problem free. twocents beer


I did have the shield dialed in- tried doing it myself and never felt confident so I punted to someone with the experience and skill.
And he bought different offset dowel pins than I did. drive
I have a 143 tooth stock flywheel which was resurfaced before the install.


I used to care but....... things have changed
Re: I need some clutch help [Re: NTOLERANCE] #3274509
12/06/24 09:07 PM
12/06/24 09:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,111
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Center Force here as well. Been in the car 20 years, at least 100 passes with slicks. Mid 12 second car at 3775 lbs race ready. Best clutch I've ever owned.
Doug

Re: I need some clutch help [Re: dvw] #3274510
12/06/24 09:20 PM
12/06/24 09:20 PM
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Posts: 9,276
Tucson, AZ
Ramrod39 Offline
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I will agree that Zoom sucks. Blew up a couple of those in short order.

Tried several others and settled on Centerforce. Great clutch, low pedal pressure but bites well and holds up to abuse. No brainer to me, Centerforce,

Re: I need some clutch help [Re: dvw] #3274513
12/06/24 09:29 PM
12/06/24 09:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,394
Madison Wi
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Originally Posted by dvw
Center Force here as well. Been in the car 20 years, at least 100 passes with slicks. Mid 12 second car at 3775 lbs race ready. Best clutch I've ever owned.
Doug


Which centerforce did you use? There are several


I used to care but....... things have changed
Re: I need some clutch help [Re: NTOLERANCE] #3274524
12/06/24 10:14 PM
12/06/24 10:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,060
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart Offline
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I personally can't stand any diaphram clutch, only Borg and Beck for me. No Chevy parts in any of my builds. tsk I don't care what my left knee feels like, a properly set-up B&B blows away a diaphram. Of course opinions vary... rolleyes


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

JB Rhinehart, Realist

A-Body's RULE!
Re: I need some clutch help [Re: Rhinodart] #3274529
12/06/24 10:36 PM
12/06/24 10:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,276
Tucson, AZ
Ramrod39 Offline
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Originally Posted by Rhinodart
I personally can't stand any diaphram clutch, only Borg and Beck for me. No Chevy parts in any of my builds. :


That's what I thought too. Until I tried a CF, twocents

Re: I need some clutch help [Re: Ramrod39] #3274555
12/07/24 08:34 AM
12/07/24 08:34 AM
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North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
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Just looked on the Centerforce website. Where are the 18 spline discs?


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: I need some clutch help [Re: NTOLERANCE] #3274563
12/07/24 09:30 AM
12/07/24 09:30 AM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Originally Posted by NTOLERANCE
Originally Posted by dvw
Center Force here as well. Been in the car 20 years, at least 100 passes with slicks. Mid 12 second car at 3775 lbs race ready. Best clutch I've ever owned.
Doug


Which centerforce did you use? There are several


Pretty sure it was a 269729. But like I said it's been 20 years. It has an aftermarket billet flywheel that was balanced with the engine which is a 360. Nobody offered a good 360 flywheel back then.
Doug

Re: I need some clutch help [Re: Rhinodart] #3274564
12/07/24 09:32 AM
12/07/24 09:32 AM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Originally Posted by Rhinodart
I personally can't stand any diaphram clutch, only Borg and Beck for me. No Chevy parts in any of my builds. tsk I don't care what my left knee feels like, a properly set-up B&B blows away a diaphram. Of course opinions vary... rolleyes


What is your thought process here? Just wondering why you think the B&B is so much bettter? Why does it "blow away a diaphram style"?
Doug

Re: I need some clutch help [Re: dvw] #3274589
12/07/24 11:25 AM
12/07/24 11:25 AM
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Posts: 2,122
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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I tried not to get into this but maybe I'm old school ,back in the day even chevy guys in the know wouldn't run a diaphragm.

That being said the best clutch I ran with slicks bolted on at the track, after many brands experience, was the old mopar street strip stuff not the green back either (10.5 only way it came).
I would have to check the old mopar catalog for the p/n. 2nd would be the Hays

On a side note any of the clutches I was running wouldn't last forever.

Maybe this has changed in the last 30 years...but 30 years ago people had issues with the centerforce. Not destructive, but issues. I say pick your own. If your the trying type put the centerforce in.

I drive Chevys occasionally and they ain't the same feel as my 70 charger rt.

I have never driven an Mopar with a centerforce.

Re: I need some clutch help [Re: B1MAXX] #3274596
12/07/24 11:53 AM
12/07/24 11:53 AM
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Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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a little reading.

DSCF4119.jpgDSCF4120.jpg
Re: I need some clutch help [Re: B1MAXX] #3274597
12/07/24 11:54 AM
12/07/24 11:54 AM
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Apollo, PA.
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Re: I need some clutch help [Re: B1MAXX] #3274599
12/07/24 11:55 AM
12/07/24 11:55 AM
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Apollo, PA.
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Re: I need some clutch help [Re: NTOLERANCE] #3274609
12/07/24 12:21 PM
12/07/24 12:21 PM
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Morristown Tn.
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71birdJ68 Offline
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I have a Center Force and I like the way it worked, BUT one thing, the dual friction disc HATES stop and go traffic and, or hills. You are in flat country, so that won't be a problem, but if you drive in a lot of stop and go, it won't work. They get hot and start smoking. I couldn't even do a parade, but other than that I like it.

Re: I need some clutch help [Re: 71birdJ68] #3274654
12/07/24 02:33 PM
12/07/24 02:33 PM
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Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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I have used mainly the centerforce II's unless it was a real low power application. Have never had a chatter issue or any other kind. up beer

Re: I need some clutch help [Re: B1MAXX] #3274657
12/07/24 02:53 PM
12/07/24 02:53 PM
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Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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Originally Posted by B1MAXX
I tried not to get into this but maybe I'm old school ,back in the day even chevy guys in the know wouldn't run a diaphragm.

That being said the best clutch I ran with slicks bolted on at the track, after many brands experience, was the old mopar street strip stuff not the green back either (10.5 only way it came).
I would have to check the old mopar catalog for the p/n. 2nd would be the Hays

On a side note any of the clutches I was running wouldn't last forever.

Maybe this has changed in the last 30 years...but 30 years ago people had issues with the centerforce. Not destructive, but issues. I say pick your own. If your the trying type put the centerforce in.

I drive Chevys occasionally and they ain't the same feel as my 70 charger rt.

I have never driven an Mopar with a centerforce.


B1 not trying to be offensive in any way but the article posted is from 1990. CF was in their infancy at that time. Technology has jumped light years ahead in that timeframe. Years ago I too hated diaphragm style clutches. can't even remember who talked me into trying one but once I did, I haven't used anything else since.
It has nothing to do with the leg effort required IMO. It's more to do with removing the stress on the frame rail pivot point (of which we had to reinforce MANY back in the day) and the longevity while being driven hard.
here's a link to their story for anyone interested up beer LINKY

and B1 , you might be surprised who developed CF clutches wink up

Last edited by TJP; 12/07/24 02:56 PM.
Re: I need some clutch help [Re: TJP] #3274660
12/07/24 03:02 PM
12/07/24 03:02 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,122
Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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actually 1980...lol but I'll never change. I like the B&B feel better. To each their own. up

Re: I need some clutch help [Re: B1MAXX] #3274672
12/07/24 03:34 PM
12/07/24 03:34 PM
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Rittman Ohio
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I have used literally every kind of clutch out there in my Savoy. My current unit is a Centerforce II pressure plate with a Mcleod 500 series disc and it is hands down the best clutch I have ever owned. It is smooth on the street and it hits hard enough on the track that I'm afraid it will break third gear in my HEMI box.
To the OP if you don't want to break your 23 spline box something has to slip or it will strip the teeth off third gear with traction,torque,and weight. A light pressure or adjustable long style plate with an iron disc will do the job. You need to spend money on a clutch if you don't want to break your current transmission. I haven't used a B&B clutch for almost 20 years. I have however used a Borg/Beck/Long Hays MKXII plate when I was racing on a regular basis but It was an adjustable unit with 900# base pressure with counter weights on the levers. That clutch was high maintenance on the street though.
The Centerforce II is a great clutch and with the dual friction disc you will be happy with it.

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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