I need some clutch help
#3274495
12/06/24 08:12 PM
12/06/24 08:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,394 Madison Wi
NTOLERANCE
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,394
Madison Wi
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Quick run down on my car 65 Coronet 383, liberty proshift 23 spline trans. Dana 60, 4.10, power lock 1350 u joints, chrome moly drive shaft. Scatter shield. Engine is a true 10:1 383, forged trw pistons, iron heads, 2.14/1.81 valves, crown 32002 solid cam 500lift / 300 duration Tunnel Ram with dual 450 holleys. ( I have dual compucar fixed 100 hp plate nitrous setup but it isn't plumbed yet) 66 up k frame , Mini tubbed, relocated super stock springs with afco sliders 325/50 Hoosier drag radials. Clutch is a vintage (80's era) Zoom 11" borg and beck. Clutch was new when installed I just got the car together and running/driving this fall. After resisting the urge to beat on it while getting things broken in for several hundred miles, I decided to give it a fairly hard launch. Clutch slipped / smoked. Zero tire spin. So I drove it some more. Maybe not enough heat cycling? At any rate couple hundred miles later I tried a 1-2 power shift. Clutch slipped/smoked again. I checked the free play at the clutch fork and have about 3/8?? Inch of movement at the rod end. So it's not hanging up. I don't think it's going to get any better. I really think I have a crap clutch. Either the 40 year old disc material is deteriorated or the pressure plate is not providing the proper clamping force or as I have been reading recently Zoom is junk. So I'm going to replace it this winter Being that I have a fairly heavy car, sticky tires, relatively decent hooking rear suspension, and 400-500 HP, I'm looking to replace the clutch with something that will be a bit softer on my 23 spline trans. I understand that clutches like a soft lock or a twin disc can take some of the shock load off the trans/drive line. But I've read some poor reviews of some of these with disc plates warping. If this was your car what clutch would you use? 18 spline isn't in the cards right now. Video of the car https://youtu.be/cHGAhxWBezU?si=lCFhKVFXfTYFFUOw
Last edited by NTOLERANCE; 12/06/24 08:22 PM.
I used to care but....... things have changed
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Re: I need some clutch help
[Re: TJP]
#3274505
12/06/24 08:56 PM
12/06/24 08:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,394 Madison Wi
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OP
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Madison Wi
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I'm a centerforce fan. I would encourage a new flywheel with the clutch and dialing in the bell housing. You don't have to buy a CF flywheel but do get a Known brand. I have installed MANY over the last 20+ years with only one issue. They had packaged the wrong sized disc for the PP ![tsk tsk](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/tsk.gif) That crapped up 3 cutch cables before we pulled the trans and found the problem. They replaced the Clutch, PP, and bearings but nothing else 👎 As po'd as I was I stayed with them as all other installs were problem free. I did have the shield dialed in- tried doing it myself and never felt confident so I punted to someone with the experience and skill. And he bought different offset dowel pins than I did. ![drive drive](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/drive.gif) I have a 143 tooth stock flywheel which was resurfaced before the install.
I used to care but....... things have changed
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Re: I need some clutch help
[Re: dvw]
#3274513
12/06/24 09:29 PM
12/06/24 09:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,394 Madison Wi
NTOLERANCE
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Madison Wi
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Center Force here as well. Been in the car 20 years, at least 100 passes with slicks. Mid 12 second car at 3775 lbs race ready. Best clutch I've ever owned. Doug Which centerforce did you use? There are several
I used to care but....... things have changed
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Re: I need some clutch help
[Re: Ramrod39]
#3274555
12/07/24 08:34 AM
12/07/24 08:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,020 North Dakota
6PakBee
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I Live Here
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North Dakota
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Just looked on the Centerforce website. Where are the 18 spline discs?
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: I need some clutch help
[Re: NTOLERANCE]
#3274563
12/07/24 09:30 AM
12/07/24 09:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,111 MI, usa
dvw
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,111
MI, usa
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Center Force here as well. Been in the car 20 years, at least 100 passes with slicks. Mid 12 second car at 3775 lbs race ready. Best clutch I've ever owned. Doug Which centerforce did you use? There are several Pretty sure it was a 269729. But like I said it's been 20 years. It has an aftermarket billet flywheel that was balanced with the engine which is a 360. Nobody offered a good 360 flywheel back then. Doug
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Re: I need some clutch help
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3274564
12/07/24 09:32 AM
12/07/24 09:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,111 MI, usa
dvw
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,111
MI, usa
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I personally can't stand any diaphram clutch, only Borg and Beck for me. No Chevy parts in any of my builds. ![tsk tsk](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/tsk.gif) I don't care what my left knee feels like, a properly set-up B&B blows away a diaphram. Of course opinions vary... What is your thought process here? Just wondering why you think the B&B is so much bettter? Why does it "blow away a diaphram style"? Doug
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Re: I need some clutch help
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3274657
12/07/24 02:53 PM
12/07/24 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,141 Omaha Ne
TJP
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I Live Here
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I tried not to get into this but maybe I'm old school ,back in the day even chevy guys in the know wouldn't run a diaphragm.
That being said the best clutch I ran with slicks bolted on at the track, after many brands experience, was the old mopar street strip stuff not the green back either (10.5 only way it came). I would have to check the old mopar catalog for the p/n. 2nd would be the Hays
On a side note any of the clutches I was running wouldn't last forever.
Maybe this has changed in the last 30 years...but 30 years ago people had issues with the centerforce. Not destructive, but issues. I say pick your own. If your the trying type put the centerforce in.
I drive Chevys occasionally and they ain't the same feel as my 70 charger rt.
I have never driven an Mopar with a centerforce. B1 not trying to be offensive in any way but the article posted is from 1990. CF was in their infancy at that time. Technology has jumped light years ahead in that timeframe. Years ago I too hated diaphragm style clutches. can't even remember who talked me into trying one but once I did, I haven't used anything else since. It has nothing to do with the leg effort required IMO. It's more to do with removing the stress on the frame rail pivot point (of which we had to reinforce MANY back in the day) and the longevity while being driven hard. here's a link to their story for anyone interested LINKYand B1 , you might be surprised who developed CF clutches ![up up](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/thumbs_up.gif)
Last edited by TJP; 12/07/24 02:56 PM.
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Re: I need some clutch help
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3274672
12/07/24 03:34 PM
12/07/24 03:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,667 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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I Live Here
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Rittman Ohio
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I have used literally every kind of clutch out there in my Savoy. My current unit is a Centerforce II pressure plate with a Mcleod 500 series disc and it is hands down the best clutch I have ever owned. It is smooth on the street and it hits hard enough on the track that I'm afraid it will break third gear in my HEMI box. To the OP if you don't want to break your 23 spline box something has to slip or it will strip the teeth off third gear with traction,torque,and weight. A light pressure or adjustable long style plate with an iron disc will do the job. You need to spend money on a clutch if you don't want to break your current transmission. I haven't used a B&B clutch for almost 20 years. I have however used a Borg/Beck/Long Hays MKXII plate when I was racing on a regular basis but It was an adjustable unit with 900# base pressure with counter weights on the levers. That clutch was high maintenance on the street though. The Centerforce II is a great clutch and with the dual friction disc you will be happy with it. Gus ![beer beer](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/custom/beer.gif)
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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