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440 stroker short block assembly. #3271306
11/19/24 02:24 PM
11/19/24 02:24 PM
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eastern,Ky
70RT Charger Offline OP
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Is there any reputable Mopar builders out there that could build a 440 stroker short block assembly and guarantee the rear main seal not to leak? I plan on using my cam and everything else from my other engine.

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: 70RT Charger] #3271307
11/19/24 02:41 PM
11/19/24 02:41 PM
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Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
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There are several different threads on here from years past that cover this B/RB seal problem. Here is one that I remember.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...in-seal-leak-almost-suicidal-update.html

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: Neil] #3271308
11/19/24 03:07 PM
11/19/24 03:07 PM
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eastern,Ky
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Already been through all that. It’s leaking between the seal and the block retainer. I tried to fix it without completely tearing the engine apart with the motor out of the car. I did some leak tests and that’s where it’s leaking. I put a rope seal in it and it didn’t leak for around 1000 miles on the dot and now it’s leaking again in the same spot. I used a Fastfish retainer and it did its job. I may have 2k miles on this build since 17 and I’m finally able to enjoy it some but I can’t have oil all over my new clutch. I’d like to have a stroker anyways.

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: 70RT Charger] #3271342
11/19/24 07:54 PM
11/19/24 07:54 PM
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Probably coincidence…. but we’d always push some oil out at the track. Could drive it up and down county roads with no issues doing wot hits from a roll. Over the years on the third freshen we went to Total Seal rings. No more oil leaks…. Knowing what I know now I wish we’d tried a vac pump.

*this was the RB stroker in my old car.

Last edited by J_BODY; 11/19/24 07:55 PM.
Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: 70RT Charger] #3271350
11/19/24 08:26 PM
11/19/24 08:26 PM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted by 70RT Charger
Is there any reputable Mopar builders out there that could build a 440 stroker short block assembly and guarantee the rear main seal not to leak? I plan on using my cam and everything else from my other engine.


Nope! The rear main seal cannot be guaranteed on a factory block with an aftermarket crankshaft. Aftermarket cranks are not all machined correctly so that is one variable. The other variable is the machine work on the factory block. Sometimes the rear main area isn't machined correctly and you can't get a modern seal to stop leaking. The third variable is the seal itself. The factory used rope seals which are no longer available. Now everything is a lip seal and they may or may not work depending on how the seal area on the crankshaft is ground.

Even highly experienced shops have problems with the rear main seals on classic engines. They all leak a little, some more than others. Ford and Chevy were smart enough to redesign their V8 engines for one piece rear main seals but Mopar didn't do it. Mopar could've gone to a one piece seal when they did the mega block casting but they didn't and now it is probably too late.

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: AndyF] #3271358
11/19/24 09:17 PM
11/19/24 09:17 PM
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eastern,Ky
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by 70RT Charger
Is there any reputable Mopar builders out there that could build a 440 stroker short block assembly and guarantee the rear main seal not to leak? I plan on using my cam and everything else from my other engine.


Nope! The rear main seal cannot be guaranteed on a factory block with an aftermarket crankshaft. Aftermarket cranks are not all machined correctly so that is one variable. The other variable is the machine work on the factory block. Sometimes the rear main area isn't machined correctly and you can't get a modern seal to stop leaking. The third variable is the seal itself. The factory used rope seals which are no longer available. Now everything is a lip seal and they may or may not work depending on how the seal area on the crankshaft is ground.

Even highly experienced shops have problems with the rear main seals on classic engines. They all leak a little, some more than others. Ford and Chevy were smart enough to redesign their V8 engines for one piece rear main seals but Mopar didn't do it. Mopar could've gone to a one piece seal when they did the mega block casting but they didn't and now it is probably too late.
What’s funny is of all of the posts I’ve read on here the last 17 years I’ve been on this page concerning the rear main seal. I’ve read countless members reply’s, bragging of the many engines they’ve built with not 1 rear main seal leaking but not 1 taker of a guaranteed non-leaking rear main seal? I’ve also called many shops and still not 1 taker of building a short block assembly. I’ve had a few say they’d build me a complete engine and run it on the dyno to make sure it didn’t leak but that’s it. Now you’re saying they all leak.

Last edited by 70RT Charger; 11/19/24 09:18 PM.
Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: 70RT Charger] #3271383
11/20/24 12:09 AM
11/20/24 12:09 AM
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Oregon
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Engines designed in 50's and 60's tend to leak. That was the reality back then with cork gaskets, flimsy sheet metal covers, rope seals, etc. When you rebuild one of those engine with new parts you usually end up with leaks. People think that since they are buying brand new parts they are going to get something that works like a new engine but that isn't what happens. Aftermarket parts are typically not built to OEM standards. Replacement parts for Mopar big block engines are low volume parts these days. These are not OEM parts, they are low volume aftermarket parts and quality control is often spotty.

We run all engines on the dyno so the customer can see it and hear it. A rear main leak on the dyno is one of the worst things that can happen since it takes so much time to fix. Someone has to pay for that time. It isn't really the shop's fault if the parts available aren't super high quality. That is why shops won't provide guarantees.

If you really need a leak free engine then switch to a Gen 3 Hemi. They are designed to be leak free. One piece seals, o-rings, embossed rubber over steel gaskets, MLS gaskets, fully machined mating surfaces, etc.

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: 70RT Charger] #3271387
11/20/24 01:24 AM
11/20/24 01:24 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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if you use a good brand of adhesive silicone, not gasket maker silicone tsk, to seal the rear main seal holder against the block and let it cure overnight, 24 hours before installing the oil pan it shouldn't leak. scope up
I use a thin putty knife to smash the sealer into the seal holder joints to the block and the same on the bottom oof the seal holder to the rear main bearing lip on the rear main bearing boss on the blocks wrench scope up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: Cab_Burge] #3271398
11/20/24 07:41 AM
11/20/24 07:41 AM
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eastern,Ky
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
if you use a good brand of adhesive silicone, not gasket maker silicone tsk, to seal the rear main seal holder against the block and let it cure overnight, 24 hours before installing the oil pan it shouldn't leak. scope up
I use a thin putty knife to smash the sealer into the seal holder joints to the block and the same on the bottom oof the seal holder to the rear main bearing lip on the rear main bearing boss on the blocks wrench scope up
Yeah I figured that would probably fix it. I wish I could just find someone that’s had good good luck with the rear not leaking that could do the machine work and go ahead and throw me a stroker kit in it and that’s it. I’ll use my cam and everything else that I have.

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: 70RT Charger] #3271399
11/20/24 08:04 AM
11/20/24 08:04 AM
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Missouri
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I am retired but still build an engine now and then. I have built 100's of big block Mopar's my first was in 1973 a 383 for a roadrunner. In looking back maybe 5% had issues with the rear main leaking, most of those were modern builds not back in the day. Some of the issues with guaranteeing a main leak is you have no control over what has been done to the block, If an engine has been line bored many times that will cause a leak as the seal cap is still in the same place. How much did they cut? Never had a machine shop ask for the seal holder so it could be properly machined. Second as mentioned the machine work on modern replacement cranks is not the same as the OEM. And forget using a rope seal, not because they don't work but they don't make decent rope seals anymore, at least the ones in the engine kits I get are all junk. The rope is not cotton but something else, it will not conform correctly. Third having worked on cars my whole life when someone demands an absolute guarantee they are the type of customer that will cause you issues and most shops just roll their eyes and don't want to be bothered with it, plenty of customers that are easier to deal with. Don't mean to insult anyone that is just life today. I have a dyno and I run my engines for my customers if it does not leak on the dyno that is my guarantee, what happens after that to a performance engine is the customers responsibility. And trust me I have seen some customers do some stupid crap in my life. So that is the view from the other side of the coin.

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: jwb123] #3271402
11/20/24 08:20 AM
11/20/24 08:20 AM
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Wichita
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GY3 Offline
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I must be the luckiest man in the world.


'63 Dodge 330

11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.

9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: jwb123] #3271403
11/20/24 08:22 AM
11/20/24 08:22 AM
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eastern,Ky
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Originally Posted by jwb123
I am retired but still build an engine now and then. I have built 100's of big block Mopar's my first was in 1973 a 383 for a roadrunner. In looking back maybe 5% had issues with the rear main leaking, most of those were modern builds not back in the day. Some of the issues with guaranteeing a main leak is you have no control over what has been done to the block, If an engine has been line bored many times that will cause a leak as the seal cap is still in the same place. How much did they cut? Never had a machine shop ask for the seal holder so it could be properly machined. Second as mentioned the machine work on modern replacement cranks is not the same as the OEM. And forget using a rope seal, not because they don't work but they don't make decent rope seals anymore, at least the ones in the engine kits I get are all junk. The rope is not cotton but something else, it will not conform correctly. Third having worked on cars my whole life when someone demands an absolute guarantee they are the type of customer that will cause you issues and most shops just roll their eyes and don't want to be bothered with it, plenty of customers that are easier to deal with. Don't mean to insult anyone that is just life today. I have a dyno and I run my engines for my customers if it does not leak on the dyno that is my guarantee, what happens after that to a performance engine is the customers responsibility. And trust me I have seen some customers do some stupid crap in my life. So that is the view from the other side of the coin.
I completely understand your side as I also have a small side business and understand what it’s like working for the public. I don’t have the tools to put a rotating assembly together nor do I usually have the time. What bothers me is my engine builder gave me the same crap, I’ve never had one to leak. It leaked on the first start up and he wouldn’t help me with it whatsoever. It was even leaking on the sides but I fixed that with the Fastfish retainer. I just wanted him to do what Mr. Cab said to do to fix it. I’m looking for a standard bore right now that hasn’t been messed with. I really don’t need a guarantee I would just like to have a Mopar guy that’s had success with them put me one together.

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: GY3] #3271406
11/20/24 08:24 AM
11/20/24 08:24 AM
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eastern,Ky
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Originally Posted by GY3
I must be the luckiest man in the world.
Still no takers……

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: 70RT Charger] #3271408
11/20/24 08:43 AM
11/20/24 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 70RT Charger
Originally Posted by GY3
I must be the luckiest man in the world.
Still no takers……


laugh2 ….this reminds me of work when people would bring 4.0 jeeps in complaining about oil leaks.

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: J_BODY] #3271412
11/20/24 09:18 AM
11/20/24 09:18 AM
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eastern,Ky
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Originally Posted by J_BODY
Originally Posted by 70RT Charger
Originally Posted by GY3
I must be the luckiest man in the world.
Still no takers……


laugh2 ….this reminds me of work when people would bring 4.0 jeeps in complaining about oil leaks.
Yeah but at least I would get 30k miles out of my new 4.0 before it’d start leaking.

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: 70RT Charger] #3271418
11/20/24 09:43 AM
11/20/24 09:43 AM
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Minnesota
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Vacuum pump

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: 70RT Charger] #3271420
11/20/24 09:47 AM
11/20/24 09:47 AM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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No shop is gonna guarantee it not to leak. The most experienced guys have problems every now and then. It's just the nature of dealing w/ 50 year old used parts and the low quality aftermarket stuff that's out there today.
I've been pretty lucky too, but most of the stuff I build is with stock cranks. Maybe that's why?


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3271431
11/20/24 10:53 AM
11/20/24 10:53 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Conments made so far point to a missing piece of machine work at a lot of shops. The rear main seal to retainer on any motor in for assembly should be checked for proper diameter, just like rhe main caps. Nobody has ever done that when doing block prep for me, and now i realize i need to use a dial bore gauge and check that myself. I have had, over the years, a couple of leakers that made me tear my hair out in frustration .


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Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3271432
11/20/24 10:58 AM
11/20/24 10:58 AM
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north of coder
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wondering out loud here, but how many performance engines/race engines suffering from rear main seal leaks are running a properly functioning PVC system, utilizing one of those adjustable billet PVC valves ?
of course a vacuum pump is a good item as well.
beer

Re: 440 stroker short block assembly. [Re: gregsdart] #3271434
11/20/24 11:09 AM
11/20/24 11:09 AM
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eastern,Ky
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Originally Posted by gregsdart
Conments made so far point to a missing piece of machine work at a lot of shops. The rear main seal to retainer on any motor in for assembly should be checked for proper diameter, just like rhe main caps. Nobody has ever done that when doing block prep for me, and now i realize i need to use a dial bore gauge and check that myself. I have had, over the years, a couple of leakers that made me tear my hair out in frustration .
Bingo!

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