Take a Mopar Purple Shaft cam and lifters from a good running 383 built in 2010 (motor has been stored in garage since then but periodically rolled over) with about 4,000 miles on it and install the set into a 440 build I am working on? I have been suffering with 2 recent failures thought to be from poor quality parts/metallurgy components.
I dont know the part number on the installed Mopar cam. Trying to avoid parts made out of butter. Thought about going with Howards hydraulic rollers but this is getting very expensive already.
Lets just assume the failures were due to poor quality.

Use that Mopar cam/lifters which has proven itself or get away from the flat tappets?

My next step is to disassemble again and rebuild.

Bad camshaft, or bad lifters first taking out the cam is the problem? You should be able to swap all those parts into a different block so long as the order is not messed up, or one of the blocks has badly worn lifter bores compared to the other.

American made camshaft cores will typically have CMC cast into them between the lobes. If you have one of those that is a good start.

Lifters are all over the map, and most won't disclose where they get them from, and many places get them from multiple sources as well, which is why they can't tell you where they come from because it varies. Cam companies don't make lifters so they buy them from a vendor and rebox them as their own.

Only one company still makes them here, however they are more money. Hughes sells these, or just buy them directly. https://toplineauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Lifter-Application-Catalog.pdf

Some places say made in USA for cams and lifters, but it's said they are saving money using foreign sourced blanks, and only doing the machining part here.


Watch all these.

https://youtu.be/e96szd_HbwE?si=OIH5hHzsjppnKJdB

https://youtu.be/pP_GYZWcpok?si=V7_CO9tH5pfx5COO

https://youtu.be/AgMYbNX2DMY?si=Dru8I4Nq65DgACYC

https://youtu.be/erxjPicpYyw?si=rGq_6-8mR6xmi_sq

Cam lobes didn't look that bad at all, most of the damage (severe) was on the bottom of the lifters. Comp cam and Comp lifters then Summit 6401 cam with supplied Summit lifters.
My problems are exactly what is described in the videos. Same wear patterns as shown. Identical failures.My second failed lifters (2 of them) were still rotating in their bores. Also used recommended springs on both applications. My first rebuild failures ever. Both suppliers warrantied immediate replacements but I am not going to use them.

Verify that ALL the lifters are spinning when you turn the engine over.

As soon as you rotate the crank at all, they should all spin the same, like they are gear driven.

If they don't, don't start the engine.

Kevin

I would use them if that is what you want in that engine. Use appropriate valve springs and a quality "flat tappet" oil.I have swapped used cams and lifters between engines many times before with no problems. Currently, I use Penngrade 20-w-50 with a S.F.T. Bullet cam and comp e.d.m. solid lifters.155-160 seat and 350-360 open pressures .Good for the last 7 years.

The parts quality is the only thing I can conclude is responsible for my failures. Believe me, I paid special attention to recommended break in procedures and break in lubricants. The parts design should not be so marginal. They should be over designed in order to avoid such failures but they are not. The issue is wide spread, I am just one of many who have had this problem and the parts manufacturers are well aware of what has been happening but continue to sell subpar parts. Its not just the expense of the cam and lifters, I had to replace the cam bearings, crank bearings, gaskets, ect. and clean all of the metal debris throughout the motor. The failures have cost countless hours and set back the timeline of the project. I am just hoping my used, proven parts will finally resolve the problem, if I go that route. Keep in mind, Mopar engine parts are expensive to begin with and the quality should be there. Well, off to the shop, I have an engine to pull out and rebuild,,,,again.

There are 3 places near me that do machining on motors and motor assembly. NONE of them will touch a flat tappet cam. Roller cams only!

I understand about the $$$$ already invested, but if it was me (and its not), I would invest how ever much more it takes to convert your new motor over to roller lifters. I don't see this problem getting any better.

Aftermarket roller lifters can have issues as well, unfortunately. Saw this one the other day.

https://youtu.be/UiRrhG-3J7E?si=41b-g1InMQU2CwJo

I am going to get it back apart and decide. I have already looked into the smallest roller cam Howard's has off the shelf and will put a parts list together. If I go that way, I will need cam/lifters, timing chain, push rods. oil pump, some say torque converter and not sure whatever else yet.

You can't fix a problem if you don't know what the problem is.

The problem is NOT parts design. The problem is crappy implementation. Poor machining, poor hardening, poor materials choice. But not poor design.

I would not settle for the smallest cam they have just because it's all that you can find. It could still be off enough that it won't be as good as it could be. I would not let an engine machine shop pick out a cam for me either unless they had plenty of dyno experience and racing experience. Here many of these guys at the machine shops in town are very old school and set in their ways. If you let them pick your parts for a street engine you'll get no more than 9:1 CR, and a Comp Cams Magnum cam off the shelf because that is the way they have always done it. This is the recipe for an engine that will have a great lumpy idle, but can actually underperform compared to the stock engine in some cases if the cam is not optimal. This is why you have older cars that sound nice, but only go low 15's at 88 mph as the dynamic cylinder pressure that actually powers the car has gone down instead of up.

I think lifters are the primary obstacle that is causing this along with some guys going overboard with oil additives.

If you can get ahold on Mike Jones (Cam King) in here he can cut you a cam (flat tappet, or roller) that is made for your car vs just picking one out of a catalog yourself. It's a small business that is always busy, but there are few complaints online about how his products perform.
https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14250

The cam companies in the south that specialize in sportsman level circle track racing have already worked their way around the flat tappet issues by switching to better made parts.

Here is another place that is supposedly good to deal with for custom tailored classic car and muscle car camshafts. https://www.camcraftcams.com/

I would not be afraid to use Hughes or Schneider either if you want to stay away from the bigger companies who seem to be having the majority of the issues.

My last couple cams came from Racer Brown. No problems with either.

You'll find most flat tappet cams sold to the old car hobby will have "CMC" on them, and come from this place. https://camshaftmachine.com/

I took it out and pulled it all apart. One lifter is dished out, with a hole in the bottom and another starting to go. Both were rotating in the lifter bores. Needs all new bearings on crank and haven't cleaned the block yet to inspect cam bearings. Can lobes were not flat at all but were rough on the tops on the ones that had dished lifters. I think I will go with rollers.

What was the valve open spring pressure on the springs you used during break-in?

Old stockers on the Comp cam then installed their recommended 911's. Didnt fail until after I changed them.
Summit said by phone call the 911's were OK for break in. It ate about 6 or 7 lobes on the Comp and 2 on the Summit.

Save yourself some money and future frustration by converting to a roller cam and lifters now

Maybe, or maybe not. Those are starting to fall apart too as the link bar retaining pins can pop off as in the video I posted, and the needle bearings in the roller wheels get flat spots in them and lock up. Some of the better sets are starting to go with a solid bushing roller wheel and omitting the needle bearings. I would shop around and do some reading on who makes ones that last before buying anything roller same as the flat tappet parts.

I think you can still make a flat tappet engine work out, however you just can't blindly continue to use some of the same parts that used to work reliably years ago. Many of these companies have been bought and sold, and things are clearly not being made the same way they used to be.

I think it's absurd that they expect everyone to put a roller in any engine now all the way down to a stock rebuild.

Are these stock heads? they are 1.85 installed. Those springs are too stiff at that height.

Stock heads yes. I agree with you but that was what they recommended.