Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
#3264413
10/16/24 05:47 AM
10/16/24 05:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,163 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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I wired this car back in 1996. Since then there have been additions. I soldered most connections, and only had one failure in 28 years. But it is a bit of a mess, and although functional, i think it would be smart to rewire for next season. I may need a switch panel with six switches , fused , or breakers
My circuits are, Pushbutton(starter) 1 ignition on/off 2 water pump 3 radiater fan 4 driver fan 5 primer + 6 data logger activation toggle 7 primer plus primer pushbutton switch Budget is a consideration, but i don't want to sacrifice reliability. Teach me how to wire a car and make it look professional!
Last edited by gregsdart; 10/16/24 05:49 AM.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3264414
10/16/24 06:06 AM
10/16/24 06:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,012 A shed in England
Tig
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Posts: 3,012
A shed in England
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'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3264434
10/16/24 08:30 AM
10/16/24 08:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,694 Here
jcc
No soup for you!!!
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No soup for you!!!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,694
Here
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It's a bit pricey, but I do all my wiring lately with Teflon wire, it might save an oz of weight as the very tough high temp insulation is slightly thinner.
200C to 265C ratings
Last edited by jcc; 10/16/24 11:52 AM.
I'm with Helmuth Hübener, and no soup is being served today.
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: jcc]
#3264460
10/16/24 09:40 AM
10/16/24 09:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,368 Morrow, OH
markz528
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Morrow, OH
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It's a bit pricey, but I do all my wiring lately with Teflon wire, it might save an oz of weight as the very tough high temp insulation is slightly thinner. Teflon is unnecessary in my opinion. XLPE is what I would strongly recommend. Considered a low smoke insulation, it does not burn like PVC and does not have the same toxic fumes when burned. It has excellent electrical properties and is rated at 125 dec C.. I believe it comes in three insulation thicknesses - thin wall, standard and heavy wall. If you want to save weight thin wall works well. This is what I buy: https://www.waytekwire.com/search?query=xlpe%20wire&page=2
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: R3 Racing]
#3264466
10/16/24 10:02 AM
10/16/24 10:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,127 Massillon, Ohio
cudatom
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,127
Massillon, Ohio
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The K and R switch panel kit is expensive buy it makes the job easy. The kit contains everything you need. That's what's going in my Cuda now. I liked the kit better than painless (I used that in my wagon). The owner of K&R is great a d always willing to discuss issues or concerns. I will say I'm cheating this time and farmed it out. I realized that I know longer have the ability to start something without being able to finish without start, stop and then start again. If I can't do it all at once I'm going to forget something and meas up. Dang Doug that's really nice.
Last edited by cudatom; 10/16/24 10:08 AM.
Ok
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: cudatom]
#3264490
10/16/24 11:00 AM
10/16/24 11:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,613 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 19,613
Las Vegas
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I have used Smartwire relay and switch panels on my last cars and womnt go back. Use Duetsch connectors on all connections and Milspec connectors on bulkheads. Buy most my wire supplies from Waytek, DelCity and Wire Depot.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: moparx]
#3264521
10/16/24 12:22 PM
10/16/24 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,012 A shed in England
Tig
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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A shed in England
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what are Anderson connectors ? I already had some so I used them. Just hi ampage, locking connectors, I used them on the fuel pumps IIRC. https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/anderson-powerpole-connectors.html
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: Tig]
#3264536
10/16/24 12:58 PM
10/16/24 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,613 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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Las Vegas
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I use Anderson connectors for the battery charging port, also on my battery chargers to go from anderson connector to clamps if needed.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3264578
10/16/24 03:54 PM
10/16/24 03:54 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,505 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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I Live Here
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Well....Mine is a mess. But, by next summer it won't be...I started a thread on here, but have not updated it much lately. But I bought a Leash Board and a Vincent harness...I burnt ARC switch panel out when I switched to the new cooling fans...It was just too much...with two fans and electric water pump.
Last edited by Dragula; 10/17/24 06:43 PM.
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: Dragula]
#3264589
10/16/24 04:29 PM
10/16/24 04:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,107 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
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Tulsa OK
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Mine is an organized mess. It is in a crappy spot for access but really didn't have a lot of options. I also have a leash relay board at the fuel pumps and at the fan. I went way overboard with the 12 relay panel when I first went EFI, I think I only use 3 of the 12 relays and have 3 relays closer to the loads. I still use the factory wiring for lights and wipers.
In my case I always start out nice and clean and then it goes downhill for the remaining 75 wires. If I did it all over again I would probably put a panel between the main hoop and passenger side cage downbar. It would be easily serviced with the door open and wouldn't mess with the passenger seat at all. I looked into doing this awhile back and it would have cost me so much in wire it wasn't worth it.
Last edited by Bad340fish; 10/16/24 04:30 PM.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: Bad340fish]
#3264600
10/16/24 05:47 PM
10/16/24 05:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,163 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Thanks all, i am learning. Looks like a K&R kit may be my best choice, since it has a lot of conections already done? A good thing for someone not very experianced in organizing a harness, Like DVW and others. Still listening, every answer has had something for me!
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: Bad340fish]
#3264601
10/16/24 05:48 PM
10/16/24 05:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,678 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,678
Motor City
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We wire all of this along with a Racepak dash and V300 in my car data logging 23 systems.
Last edited by 6PKRTSE; 10/16/24 05:50 PM.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: cl440]
#3264727
10/17/24 11:10 AM
10/17/24 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,613 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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Las Vegas
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FWIW we have been grounded EVERYTHING to the battery(floating)for a few years and will never go back to chassis grounds again.
I have used K&R panels many times. It is a good budget option.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3264735
10/17/24 11:32 AM
10/17/24 11:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,163 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Al, not fully understanding your comment on grounding. I definately want to get that right. My battery is in front of the radiater. So my guess is, with less distance to all componants, that may work better than a rear mount battery? Still, i want to go direct, and i want to understand how to avoid problems with poor grounds.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3264745
10/17/24 12:56 PM
10/17/24 12:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,012 A shed in England
Tig
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,012
A shed in England
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I did the same as Al and ran an open "Horseshoe" of 8mm square ground cables, from the trunk mounted batteries to 5 ground "Bars" in the car. One in the trunk, two under the dash (L&R) and 2 up front near the headlights, again left and right hand side. Each bar has about 10 connection points. I also run a filter capacitor on the data logger supply AND the MSD Grid supply. Doing this ensures an equal ground for everything (within reason) without the potential ( see what I did there ) for the voltage to differ between sub systems. Sure it's heavier and uses more wire but it reduces the risk of any that issues that can be caused caused by the above, especially on Data loggers and ign systems. Heads have an earth cable to the block and another thing I did was run a separate earth cable for the starter (welding cable), that made a noticeable difference. The batteries are still earthed to the chassis as well but the chassis isn't used as the ground for any circuit. HTH's
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: cl440]
#3264761
10/17/24 01:41 PM
10/17/24 01:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 6,416 Heaven
EvilB1Dart
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master
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Posts: 6,416
Heaven
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I dont have any pics but the ARC 8000 kit was very easy to install and is a very neat and clean set up. I have had the same unit in 2 different cars and it has been rock solid reliable. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another if needed. Same kit I purchased for my son’s Coupe. Nice piece and heard good things about the touch control system.
"If you can still hear your fears - shift a gear."
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3264780
10/17/24 03:26 PM
10/17/24 03:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,613 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,613
Las Vegas
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Al, not fully understanding your comment on grounding. I definately want to get that right. My battery is in front of the radiater. So my guess is, with less distance to all componants, that may work better than a rear mount battery? Still, i want to go direct, and i want to understand how to avoid problems with poor grounds. Everyhting in the car ground directly to the battery. Mostly through bulkhead connectors or distribution blocks that go directly to the battery. Every component is grounded that way. No cables on heads, no cable on starter. Just every wire for every relay or switch in the car is grounded directly the battery. The igniton and racepak stuff is as well both receive direct battery voltage and grounds from the battery. Rahter than relying on the chassis engine etc. You wont see near the voltage drop this way.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: EvilB1Dart]
#3264787
10/17/24 04:37 PM
10/17/24 04:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,127 Massillon, Ohio
cudatom
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,127
Massillon, Ohio
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I dont have any pics but the ARC 8000 kit was very easy to install and is a very neat and clean set up. I have had the same unit in 2 different cars and it has been rock solid reliable. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another if needed. Same kit I purchased for my son’s Coupe. Might be selling it and going back to their old school switch panel. Been trying to sell the old one cheap and no takers. Might as well use it. I ranan arc panel for about 20yrs. I really liked there kit. It just didn't have what I wanted this time around.
Ok
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: cudatom]
#3264790
10/17/24 05:10 PM
10/17/24 05:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,187 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,187
Melbourne , Australia
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A friend recommended the Leash Electronics ( https://www.leashelectronics.com/) stuff to me to do my own car, it's something I'll be looking at in the new year. I'm just posting so I can follow along, electricity is witchcraft as far as I'm concerned :-D
Alan Jones
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3264860
10/18/24 06:36 AM
10/18/24 06:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 212 Connellsville
71Demon528
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 212
Connellsville
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FWIW we have been grounded EVERYTHING to the battery(floating)for a few years and will never go back to chassis grounds again.
I have used K&R panels many times. It is a good budget option. Agree with the floating ground.
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: 71Demon528]
#3264868
10/18/24 07:26 AM
10/18/24 07:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,163 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Well, i am commited. Just ordered a K&R kit and six fused relays. Grounding wire will be fine braided welding cable and terminals by the battery and in the footwell area of rhe passenger side. The only ground i will leave on the chassis is for the primer plus pump, which is not critical. I am thinking a dialectric Loctite of some sort might be a good idea ? Thanks Doug (DVW) for the excellent photos and info, and thanks to all that have contributed. Now the fun begins. I will take pictures of my current mess and will be looking for sugestions of where to put switch panel and fuse block, etc
Last edited by gregsdart; 10/18/24 07:30 AM.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3264869
10/18/24 07:31 AM
10/18/24 07:31 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 697 COLUMBUS, OH
Whompin_Wedge
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 697
COLUMBUS, OH
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Well, i am commited. Just ordered a K&R kit and six fused relays. Grounding wire will be fine braided welding cable and terminals by the battery and in the footwell area of rhe passenger side. The only ground i will leave on the chassis is for the primer plus pump, which is not critical. I am thinking a dialectric Loctite of some sort might be a good idea ? Thanks Doug (DVW) for the excellent photos and info, and thanks to all that have contributed. Now the fun begins. I will take pictures of my current mess and will be looking for sugestions of where to put switch panel and fuse block, etc Greg, I run the K&R stuff in both of my cars. Love it. Super simple to install. Thanks, Casey FJ
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3264912
10/18/24 10:54 AM
10/18/24 10:54 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,650 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,650
north of coder
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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not as bad as some i have seen and straightened out. it will be work for sure, but just take your time, use quality crimping tools, and you will be pleased and proud of what you will accomplish. if you don't own quality crimping tools, you should buy or borrow some before you start.
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3264940
10/18/24 12:06 PM
10/18/24 12:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,550 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,550
Minnesota
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I feel your pain.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3265014
10/18/24 05:27 PM
10/18/24 05:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,678 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,678
Motor City
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,I guess I like everything tiddy.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3265193
10/19/24 03:58 PM
10/19/24 03:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,650 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,650
north of coder
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for whatever it's worth, i have started to use marine grade heat shrink with the glue inside for all my wiring chores over the last couple of years. i think it's just a little more protection from whatever moisture may find it's way in and around any terminal connections. is it really necessary ? who knows ? but it makes me feel a little better......... i guess.............
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3265272
10/20/24 02:35 AM
10/20/24 02:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,163 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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OP
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Twenty eight years and some add ons will create issues, also i recently had to track down a dead short in the starter circuit, and the whole harness got opened up to figure it out. Turned out to be a braided steel presure line got too close to the engine compartment starter switch.
Last edited by gregsdart; 10/20/24 02:37 AM.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: cl440]
#3265298
10/20/24 09:53 AM
10/20/24 09:53 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,562 PA
moparacer
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,562
PA
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I dont have any pics but the ARC 8000 kit was very easy to install and is a very neat and clean set up. I have had the same unit in 2 different cars and it has been rock solid reliable. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another if needed. I love my ARC 8000. Been in the car for 15 years.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 5.44-126 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: moparacer]
#3265789
10/22/24 09:49 AM
10/22/24 09:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,163 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Ordered the top of the line K&R delay box last night . At a total of $1220 so far this is costing more than i figured in,,,,,, Question, what are you guys mounting tour fuse panels on?
Last edited by gregsdart; 10/22/24 10:07 AM.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Time to rewire my racecar? Show me what you have?
[Re: gregsdart]
#3273783
12/02/24 11:53 PM
12/02/24 11:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,163 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
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OP
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Pictures of the new switch/delaybox panel and fuse panel locations. Used Lexan for rhe fuse panel, some circuits will be fused on a seperate block ,like the drivers fan, so it is independant of the K&R fuse block. Haven't started to route the wires yet, but have all tagged with destination. Next, bundle them up, do my best to make it look neat.
Last edited by gregsdart; 12/02/24 11:57 PM.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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