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MoPar Performance 20:1 box lock to lock #3260927
09/30/24 02:59 PM
09/30/24 02:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,485
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline OP
I Live Here
CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,485
Canada
Ive got a manual box, we installed the 20:1 MoPar Performance guts.
Noticed the turning radius wasn't great so we thought the lower control arm "bumps" were limiting it from turning sharper.
NOPE!
The box stops the steering, it only turns 3 1/4 or so from lock to lock. Everywhere I read says it should be 4 1/2 turns lock to lock.
Anybody else have this!!?!?


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: MoPar Performance 20:1 box lock to lock [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #3260932
09/30/24 03:44 PM
09/30/24 03:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 295
Anchorage, Alaska
metallicareload Offline
enthusiast
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 295
Anchorage, Alaska
“Stock” 24:1 ratio should be about 4 1/2 turns lock to lock.

20:1 ratio works out to AROUND 3 1/2 turns lock to lock, by my math. Is the range/angle of the actual pitman arm reduced?


440, 4-Speed, 3.54
1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth
Re: MoPar Performance 20:1 box lock to lock [Re: metallicareload] #3260939
09/30/24 04:17 PM
09/30/24 04:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,485
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline OP
I Live Here
CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,485
Canada
Originally Posted by metallicareload
“Stock” 24:1 ratio should be about 4 1/2 turns lock to lock.

20:1 ratio works out to AROUND 3 1/2 turns lock to lock, by my math. Is the range/angle of the actual pitman arm reduced?


Range SEEMS to be reduced. It also has a Firm Feel fast ratio pitman arm. Turning radius is pretty bad and bump stops are nowhere near the lower a arm, it's the box limiting the full turn abilities we think
MoPar Performance P4007612 kit in a factory box housing. Steering is fine, but won't turn sharp!?!


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: MoPar Performance 20:1 box lock to lock [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #3261027
09/30/24 07:54 PM
09/30/24 07:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,571
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
autoxcuda  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,571
So Cal
Originally Posted by CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Originally Posted by metallicareload
“Stock” 24:1 ratio should be about 4 1/2 turns lock to lock.

20:1 ratio works out to AROUND 3 1/2 turns lock to lock, by my math. Is the range/angle of the actual pitman arm reduced?


Range SEEMS to be reduced. It also has a Firm Feel fast ratio pitman arm. Turning radius is pretty bad and bump stops are nowhere near the lower a arm, it's the box limiting the full turn abilities we think
MoPar Performance P4007612 kit in a factory box housing. Steering is fine, but won't turn sharp!?!


What was the intention of running a 20:1 box and fast ratio longer pitman arms. As apposed to 16:1 box.

Did you change to a longer idler arm too to match the longer Pitman Arm?

Need to accurately measure the output shaft lock to lock of your 20:1 box compared to a 24:1 box. Like paint mark a spine tooth, scratch awl a corresponding mark on the housing. The calipers involved. get measurement difference. Or maybe use an engine degree wheel. etc.

If they are the same, I would look into the clocking of the pitman arm to the output shaft. I believe the repro Quick Ratio Pitman's are not clocked. So it's up to the user to figure out.


Fall Fling 28 October 19, 2024 at Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA
300+ Mopars, 125+ swap, midway, Friday Malibu cruise,
Re: MoPar Performance 20:1 box lock to lock [Re: autoxcuda] #3262117
10/05/24 11:03 AM
10/05/24 11:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,485
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline OP
I Live Here
CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,485
Canada
Originally Posted by autoxcuda
Originally Posted by CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Originally Posted by metallicareload
“Stock” 24:1 ratio should be about 4 1/2 turns lock to lock.

20:1 ratio works out to AROUND 3 1/2 turns lock to lock, by my math. Is the range/angle of the actual pitman arm reduced?


Range SEEMS to be reduced. It also has a Firm Feel fast ratio pitman arm. Turning radius is pretty bad and bump stops are nowhere near the lower a arm, it's the box limiting the full turn abilities we think
MoPar Performance P4007612 kit in a factory box housing. Steering is fine, but won't turn sharp!?!


What was the intention of running a 20:1 box and fast ratio longer pitman arms. As apposed to 16:1 box.

Did you change to a longer idler arm too to match the longer Pitman Arm?

Need to accurately measure the output shaft lock to lock of your 20:1 box compared to a 24:1 box. Like paint mark a spine tooth, scratch awl a corresponding mark on the housing. The calipers involved. get measurement difference. Or maybe use an engine degree wheel. etc.

If they are the same, I would look into the clocking of the pitman arm to the output shaft. I believe the repro Quick Ratio Pitman's are not clocked. So it's up to the user to figure out.


I wanted a 16:1 ratio - the car is light, engine is setback, it's got narrow tires up front.
Here's the weird part lol
It's a C body front end. It has a Firm Feel fast ratio pitman arm, the idler arm is C body and almost identical length.
We are measuring lock to lock this weekend as accurately as possible. The pitman arm is clocked dead center of the output shaft, it's restricted turning equally both ways.. Not sure if the 20:1 kit was faulty, our install was faulty or what. Drives fine just doesn't seem to turn far enough in either direction.


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: MoPar Performance 20:1 box lock to lock [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #3262199
10/05/24 06:35 PM
10/05/24 06:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,571
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
autoxcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,571
So Cal
Originally Posted by CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Originally Posted by autoxcuda
Originally Posted by CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Originally Posted by metallicareload
“Stock” 24:1 ratio should be about 4 1/2 turns lock to lock.

20:1 ratio works out to AROUND 3 1/2 turns lock to lock, by my math. Is the range/angle of the actual pitman arm reduced?


Range SEEMS to be reduced. It also has a Firm Feel fast ratio pitman arm. Turning radius is pretty bad and bump stops are nowhere near the lower a arm, it's the box limiting the full turn abilities we think
MoPar Performance P4007612 kit in a factory box housing. Steering is fine, but won't turn sharp!?!


What was the intention of running a 20:1 box and fast ratio longer pitman arms. As apposed to 16:1 box.

Did you change to a longer idler arm too to match the longer Pitman Arm?

Need to accurately measure the output shaft lock to lock of your 20:1 box compared to a 24:1 box. Like paint mark a spine tooth, scratch awl a corresponding mark on the housing. The calipers involved. get measurement difference. Or maybe use an engine degree wheel. etc.

If they are the same, I would look into the clocking of the pitman arm to the output shaft. I believe the repro Quick Ratio Pitman's are not clocked. So it's up to the user to figure out.


I wanted a 16:1 ratio - the car is light, engine is setback, it's got narrow tires up front.
Here's the weird part lol
It's a C body front end. It has a Firm Feel fast ratio pitman arm, the idler arm is C body and almost identical length.
We are measuring lock to lock this weekend as accurately as possible. The pitman arm is clocked dead center of the output shaft, it's restricted turning equally both ways.. Not sure if the 20:1 kit was faulty, our install was faulty or what. Drives fine just doesn't seem to turn far enough in either direction.


What do you mean it's a "C body front end" what car is all this installed on?

If it's a B/E/A body the lower ball joints (than include steering arms) should be for the corresponding body style (typically K781/K783 if large bolt brakes)


Fall Fling 28 October 19, 2024 at Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA
300+ Mopars, 125+ swap, midway, Friday Malibu cruise,
Re: MoPar Performance 20:1 box lock to lock [Re: autoxcuda] #3262221
10/05/24 11:03 PM
10/05/24 11:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,342
Here
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
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J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,342
Here
I wonder if he means the large C body tie rod ends and adjusters?


" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar






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