Looks like everything I need.to make the change , Tuner is included so i can turn the MDS off in the ecm
Make idle adjustments etc etc

Free shipping so $1525 plus tax delivered to my door , other than oil it looks like everything I need to do this MDS delete update
He recommends at a bare minimum cleaning / inspecting or replacing the oil pump and maybe even the VVT solenoid


Thoughts ?




https://www.amsracing.net/collectio...5-7l-hemi-engines?variant=11532742557732

what cam? I would replace timing set&oil pump,flush out all the oil passages,as they will have metal in them from the lifter&cam.

Stock grind 5.7 cam , just non MDS specs

Im planning to change oil pump. VVT solenoid and timing set while its apart. As I really only want to do this once

Tuner has capabilities of several different tunes / programming settings

The filter catches the metal before it goes into the passages unless you run Fram filters... in that case shame on you!

The only reason to delete MDS is if your going to a bigger cam...

Make sure that is an actual mopar cam not the Chinese copy for sale all over the place for dirt cheap, they are awful!

Thanks,
Its confirmed, A New Mopar non MDS cam , and new mopar Scat pack NON mds hemi lifters

I believe its this one https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mop-53022263af/make/ram/model/1500/year/2012#overview

Im after long term reliability . Not make it a race car . So stock is just fine
And it seems its overwhelming to delete the MDS system for long term life in one of these engines. Combined with a quality full synthetic oil and high quality filter

Its my daily driver and used to pull a trailer 2 or 3 times a year

Brings up the question. If I delete the MDS.
Do I still keep using 5W20 oil. or switch to something a little heavier ?

Keep using 5-20,if you don't your ch engine will come on.I have delated mds on 7 vehicles everybody says no difference in fuel millage .

There's no backing to the MDS causing issues claims. It was never an issue in the earlier new Hemis and both MDS and non MDS lifters can fail. But it's probably the route to go when you're already in there.

I agree, there is exactly zero evidence the MDS causes the lifter failure trouble. I do cams in manual cars and 5.7 ram 2500s all the time and the don't have MDS. The pre 2009 engines had MDS with basically zero lifter and cam failure and ironically they had an even lower volume oil pump so that theory goes out the window also. I have done enough cams in these to build a log cabin with them and never had to do one before 2009. I actually see less MDS lifters go bad than non MDS lifters in engines that have both, perhaps because the lifter is not experiencing high spring pressure every other revolution... they only have installed spring pressure wearing out the roller when the system is engaged while the normal lifters are cycling thru low spring pressure and maximum spring pressure.

When the MDS solenoid is replaced with the plastic plug you get more oil to the lifter sides that is not useful and this in turn means less oil for rod and main bearings that is useful. Those MDS solenoids actually give the bottom end more oil when it is under a load and needs it the most.

Update, I have it opened up. Found a bad roller on the one lifter cyl #7

Cam is worn , but definitly not hatefull or as bad as a lot ive seen on the net

Anyone have pros or cons to go with all Melling parts versus all Mopar parts ?

Im on the fence to delete the MDS or not

If I do delete it, is there any pros or cons to leave the MDS solenoids in it or change them out to the kit supplied plugs ?

New timing set, New Valve springs , new HV oil pump and water pump will be part of the repair no matter which direction I go

Delete MDS , install plugs Win Win. as for Pros/Cons , honestly I think it's all subjective , we've had customers say gas mileage was better when towing, ...went to crap when towing, I think some of it has to do with driver habits
for me, personally , I do a lot of short hop driving, 3 miles here, 10 miles there 90% suburbs , mileage went up by 2 , lost 2 on high way , my current daily is a 09 RCSB 4x2 , irony is I got it real cheap because it had a lifter issue

The Lifter issue is a combination of the VVT function, keep in mind certain scenarios the cam is being pulled away from the lifter or snapping back to lock position.
FCA had Comp cams and a private company run a test on a spintron to figure out the issue.

decision made.

Ive ordered everything to retain the MDS,

Basically It came down to I did not want to have to deal with a tune or aftermkt reprogramer issues

New stock grind Melling cam, OEM updated lifters , head bolts, Timing set, Hellcat oil pump ( will swap out high pressure relief spring with my stock pump to avoid oil pressures faults in the system) new valve springs, water pump, etc etc etc


Not cheap. BUT it is what it is

If you leave MDS solenoids in you will get more oil to the crankshaft bearings otherwise you have 16 big leaks under full oil pump pressure at all times, with MDS in and functioning they only do that under very light loads. MDS does not hurt the cam, if it does then someone needs to explain why the earlier engines didn't have this problem.




You made the right decision, deleting MDS on a basically stock engine is dumb.

the pressure relief spring only does its thing under high oil pressure conditions like high RPM or cold starts. The hellcat pump will make more pressure at lower RPM and set check engine lights on some vehicles. I've never seen a stock pump make less than 20 PSI hot idle... more than enough and it's still more volume than the earlier engines that didn't have this problem.

I would love to see any evidence to back that claim up, i seriously doubt it has anything to do with VVT, it is just advancing and retarding it, same thing as increasing or decreasing RPM.

In tests I've seen ,,,,. And Ive been deep into that rabbit hole many times the past few weeks . Researching this and that to no end.
I felt the deleting of the MDS with its associated possible issues. Both mechanically and electronically / software . Was not something I felt like taking the chance on .

The hellcat pump makes more pressure via more volume

And installing the stock relief spring only lowers top end / blow off / max pressure. Yet Retains the lower end volume and pressure .
That with the upgraded lifters, More oil is a good thing, So It should live long and prosper ( fingers crossed )

There was no way I was not going to put a pump in this while its apart. So the upgrade seemed like a no brainer


With the costs of the tuners to basically do nothing but delete the MDS and a few software changes then get stuffed in the tool box to never see light again felt like a waste to me. As once connected to the Vin they are tied to it and it alone

As i have zero interest trying to get more power out of it , Power costs money, Power uses fuel , power breaks parts. None of which I felt the need for. The truck does EVERYTHING I need it to do when I need it, . So, stock seemed like the right way to go

I decided to spend the money on upgrading hard parts. As all in this ordeal is going to costs me in the neighborhood of $2500 before Im done. And thats ME doing all the work , Aint retired life grand LoL

I like my truck , everything about it . But the truck has about 155k miles on it . And I have serious doubts I'll put even close to another 100K . So fix it and drive on was a no brainer.

Common sense alone should tell you VVT has something to do with it,....G3 never had a MDS lifter issue before VVT, but after VVT it does,

One of the things discovered during the spintron testing was that when the VVT SNAPS the cam back to lock position there is roughly 3x load on the Camshaft lobe. When retarding the cam they found that in certain situations the plunger in the lifter expands to the point where the contact pressure on the lobe decreases by 50-60% then valve spring pressure takes up that "slack" which creates a bounce

you don't need a masters in Automotive Engineering from University of Wisconsin and 6 years experience working for Stellantis to be able to grasp the root cause.

Is there any preferred choice to install a cam phaser lockout kit. Keeps the cam from actually going into VVT I assume


Edit, Never mind. Got my answer to absolutely not install a lockout with stock cam / valve train

If you ever opened up a phaser and studied how it works in relation to the complete oil system all together you would see that there is a really big volume of oil in those chambers and you would know that it can only be vented so fast because of basically an orifice allowing it to empty at a certain speed, it can not "snap" back, it takes time for that oil to be vented from the phaser. The FACT is the needle bearing size on the lifter was significantly reduced in 2009 and so a smaller particle of anything can stop one from rolling just like how a penny on the floor in the grocery store can stop your buggy wheel from rolling and it will get a flat spot on the wheel that keeps getting worse as it stops intermittently and skids on the flat spot even more but a train wheel will just keep rolling over one like it wasn't even there. That's why the lifters fail and throwing more oil at it will not do anything to stop it.

I would love to see someone with actual spintron data backing up your claim. Maybe you worked there and couldn't figure this out and that would explain why they are still wiping lobes 15 years after the problem surfaced, if it was snapping back and causing this problem it would be super easy to solve with a computer software update to slow it down even more... Engineers really do some stupid stuff the ordinary everyday man can see is a huge problem but the engineer with his "special education" is clueless.

I don't see how VVT could cause lifter problems. All it does is move the camshaft a few degrees. It was likely a supplier or design change on the actual lifters that caused the issues.

all I know is what we found during the sprintron tests.