Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 8 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: MI_Custumz] #3259287
09/22/24 06:32 AM
09/22/24 06:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
R
ruderunner Offline
master
ruderunner  Offline
master
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
Ammeter wires are disconnected under the hood.

____ ok good.

I will keep investigating for sure. I realize every little bit of voltage drop adds up and want to fix it fully. But if it comes time for storage for winter, I may have to take (as we say at work) a tactical pause.

____ everyone has priorities.


Thanks for explaining the fusible link.


A coworker mentioned putting an inline fuse instead of a fusible link. I'm not so sure about that.

____ You're correct to be skeptical. While both fuses and links are for circuit protection, they operate very differently and serve different purposes. A fuse is designed to blow if there's any overloading of a circuit. A link is designed to carry current until an overloading situation lasts too long. Basically a very slow blow fuse.

But what amp fuse would be suitable if that's a viable route? I can only cut so much more off the positive cable pigtail before I run out of wire if it blows the fusible link and needs another one added.

____ not a big deal. You can crimp a terminal to the wire and attach it to the bolt on the clamp. Note also that the link can attach either to the battery or the junction, as long as it's between those 2 points it doesn't really matter.

Hoping the fusible link will be good since they had one in the ammeter wiring and it never blew from what I can tell, but will check those when I inspect the wires when I pull them all the way out.


A little elaboration on the difference between a fuse and a link. After starting a car, the battery has suffered a significant drain and needs to be recharged. Once running the vehicle makes that a priority and the charging system starts pumping electrons into the battery. This could flow at a rate exceeding 40 amps.

Technically a 10ga wire is only good for 30. A correctly sized fuse for 10ga is 30 amps. The fuse will blow almost immediately and you get no charging. A link will handle the overloading for a few minutes and that's OK since the wire isn't suffering a direct short to ground. The overloading takes a couple minutes to heat the wire to the point of failure.

By then the charging system has settled down, as the rate of charging falls off the closer to full charge you get. Say after 30 seconds, you're only pumping 20 amps to the battery, after a minute it might be 10 etc.

The battery has been topped off and the world is a happy place. Neither the charging wire nor the link have suffered.

NOTE the above numbers are only for illustration. It's too early to do the math.


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: ruderunner] #3259469
09/23/24 05:05 AM
09/23/24 05:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
Never thought about using the terminal bolt. Makes sense. With that info, next time I look for battery cables, I may be able to find 2ga long enough and use the bolt for the body ground and junction block feed. That way I can get rid of the charging posts to convert from a side post to a top post set up.

Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: MI_Custumz] #3259654
09/23/24 04:57 PM
09/23/24 04:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
R
ruderunner Offline
master
ruderunner  Offline
master
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
You can just put a longer bolt on the top style clamp. I recommend stainless.

And, for side terminal, I use 3/8 coarse thread bolts and nuts. Thread the bolt all the way in by hand, then tighten the nut down on the cable.


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: ruderunner] #3259680
09/23/24 06:01 PM
09/23/24 06:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
I added those notes to my sheet I have saved with other notes. Good info to know. Thanks.

I was able to test a few things tonight.

Voltage drop test

Junction block left (fusible link) key on run 13mV and cranking 50mV

Junction block right (main harness power) key on run 14mV and cranking 50mV

Solenoid 1269mV with test lead from battery positive to wire ran to solenoid

Solenoid 9.55V when cranking

NSS in 549mV when cranking

NSS out 578mV when cranking

Tested with ground for voltage

Ignition tab in fuse box is 12.21V

Battery was 12.3V

Looks like I picked up voltage to the ignition tab as well. I will remove the wiring that was going to the ammeter at a later date and check it for any issues. It is still under the hood, but disconnected and secured.

Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: ruderunner] #3259762
09/24/24 10:21 AM
09/24/24 10:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,740
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,740
north of coder
Originally Posted by ruderunner
You can just put a longer bolt on the top style clamp. I recommend stainless.

And, for side terminal, I use 3/8 coarse thread bolts and nuts. Thread the bolt all the way in by hand, then tighten the nut down on the cable.




when using side terminal batteries, i like to use a stainless stud, [allen set screw] and a stainless nut, slathering the set screw with copper high temperature anti-seize.
using the set screw allows the use of the proper size allen hex key [cut down in length on the short side if needed for clearance] to hold the stud from turning, while the nut is loosened.
use of the anti-seize is necessary to prevent the stainless threads from galling, thus preventing the nut and stud from coming apart cleanly when necessary.
beer

Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: moparx] #3259813
09/24/24 03:00 PM
09/24/24 03:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
Was thinking today about voltage drop. When the car wouldn't start with either the key or bypass it was obviously because it wasn't getting enough voltage to the solenoid. It would start when jumped with cables or the plug in charger/jumper at home every time and most times with the jump box. I am guessing the jumper cables (14.5V or so from the other car) and the plug in charger/jumper would put out at least that so with voltage drop, it was enough to the solenoid. If the jump box puts out the same as a battery (12.6V or so) it would work sometimes like the battery. I see now how the voltage drop can really mess with you. In theory, if I put a jumper wire from the battery and touch it to the wire inside the car that goes to the solenoid, it would work every time as it is direct voltage. I'm not going to do anything crazy with wiring, but was just thinking and wanted to make sure I was absorbing the concepts. I have not paid attention if it fires right back up when shut off with the key since the battery voltage is slightly higher at that point versus when it's been sitting for a few days and at "rest".

Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: MI_Custumz] #3259843
09/24/24 05:54 PM
09/24/24 05:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
R
ruderunner Offline
master
ruderunner  Offline
master
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
I added those notes to my sheet I have saved with other notes. Good info to know. Thanks.

I was able to test a few things tonight.

Voltage drop test

Junction block left (fusible link) key on run 13mV and cranking 50mV

Junction block right (main harness power) key on run 14mV and cranking 50mV


____ dramatic improvements there. Good!

Solenoid 1269mV with test lead from battery positive to wire ran to solenoid


____ still sketchy here.

Solenoid 9.55V when cranking

NSS in 549mV when cranking


____ indicates problem between battery and nss

NSS out 578mV when cranking

____ negligible drop through switch. Good.

Tested with ground for voltage

Ignition tab in fuse box is 12.21V

Battery was 12.3V

____ battery needs charged.

Looks like I picked up voltage to the ignition tab as well. I will remove the wiring that was going to the ammeter at a later date and check it for any issues. It is still under the hood, but disconnected and secured.


_____ it seems you're losing voltage to the solenoid and about half of the drop is before the NSS and half after. 1269-578=about 600.
Power gets to the NSS through the bulkhead. Power gets to the solenoid through the bulkhead. I'd be looking really closely at that.



Angry white pureblood male
Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: MI_Custumz] #3259846
09/24/24 06:03 PM
09/24/24 06:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
R
ruderunner Offline
master
ruderunner  Offline
master
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
Was thinking today about voltage drop. When the car wouldn't start with either the key or bypass it was obviously because it wasn't getting enough voltage to the solenoid. It would start when jumped with cables or the plug in charger/jumper at home every time and most times with the jump box. I am guessing the jumper cables (14.5V or so from the other car) and the plug in charger/jumper would put out at least that so with voltage drop, it was enough to the solenoid. If the jump box puts out the same as a battery (12.6V or so) it would work sometimes like the battery. I see now how the voltage drop can really mess with you. In theory, if I put a jumper wire from the battery and touch it to the wire inside the car that goes to the solenoid, it would work every time as it is direct voltage. I'm not going to do anything crazy with wiring, but was just thinking and wanted to make sure I was absorbing the concepts. I have not paid attention if it fires right back up when shut off with the key since the battery voltage is slightly higher at that point versus when it's been sitting for a few days and at "rest".


You haven't sunk the battleship yet, but you're finding more of the fleet.

That's exactly what was happening, the solenoid wasn't getting enough juice to engage. The PO installed push button was able to provide a bit more juice than the factory wiring but still not enough.

This plug in jumper box, plugs into the lighter? If so, it probably bypassed whatever is ailing the wiring.

Powering the solenoid directly from the battery will work. It basically bypassing all the factory stuff. People do stuff like this all the time but often spend more time and energy than a proper fix.


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: ruderunner] #3259926
09/25/24 05:53 AM
09/25/24 05:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
I'll see if I can hopefully get the bulkhead disconnected and inspect it.

The jump box is a NOCO Boost Plus GB40. It doesn't plug into the lighter.

Charger/jumper is an old school plug into the wall set up.

As far as the wire from the solenoid I have in the cabin of the car, I was thinking of pulling it back out of the cabin area after monitoring the voltage for a while and tucking it under the hood near the battery so I can just touch it to the positive terminal if I need to. Rather get the wiring solved, but since it's ran might as well keep it on there for now in case I need it in the future.

Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: MI_Custumz] #3260064
09/25/24 04:39 PM
09/25/24 04:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
R
ruderunner Offline
master
ruderunner  Offline
master
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
Ok, u said plug in jumper box and I was thinking one of the newfangled ones that plug into a lighter socket. Either way, it gives enough bump to system voltage to overcome the drop to the solenoid.

Assuming you're test wire is large enough gauge, you can use it as a bypass. I think you said it was 10, that's plenty big.


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: ruderunner] #3260149
09/26/24 07:22 AM
09/26/24 07:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
I have a 12ga wire from the solenoid to the cabin of the car for voltage monitoring. I used a yellow wire to be different than all the red wires the previous owner ran for things.

Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: MI_Custumz] #3260282
09/26/24 05:09 PM
09/26/24 05:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
R
ruderunner Offline
master
ruderunner  Offline
master
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
Considering how much shorter the run is, 12 should work ok.


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: ruderunner] #3261293
10/01/24 04:52 PM
10/01/24 04:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
Car is put up for the winter. I won't be messing with it until spring. Thank you all that helped. I drove it to top off the fuel tank and it got 9.8V to the solenoid and started with the key each time. I know it's not completely solved, but all I can do for now. Hopefully I can figure it out 100% next year. I may resurrect this post or start a new one. Not sure how long the posts stay on the forum.

Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: MI_Custumz] #3261308
10/01/24 06:20 PM
10/01/24 06:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
R
ruderunner Offline
master
ruderunner  Offline
master
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,519
ohio
Is the car inaccessible?

I'm just thinking you could disassemble the bulkhead connector for inspection. No need to start it, just taking things apart and looking for burnt terminals or cooked wires.

Or previous owner modified wiring.


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Neutral Safety Switch issues?? [Re: ruderunner] #3261373
10/02/24 05:42 AM
10/02/24 05:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,759
Port Huron, Michigan
I may take the bulkhead off and check it out. It is in the garage at home for the first time in 19 years. I don't like starting it when it's parked for the winter. Garage isn't heated, so it has to be a sort of nice day to mess with it. Not used to it being home to mess with it during the winter.

Page 8 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1